HomeMy WebLinkAboutAgenda Report - February 6, 1991 (99)eN
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C1 7-Y OF LODi
COUNCIL COMMUNICATION
AGENDA TITLE: Communications (January 17, 1991 through January 29, 1991)
MEETING DATE: February 6, 1991
PREPARED BY: City Clerk
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
AGENDA ITEM RECOMMENDATION
J 3d Discussion and appropriate action.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION: The following communication was received between the
dates of January 17, 1991 and January 29, 1991.
J 3d From, Michael J. Barkley, 161 North Sheridan Avenue ,f1,
Manteca, CA, requesting that the City Council a opt a
resolution supporting the establishment by the Federal
Communications Commission of a Citizens' Band Radio
Traffic Advisory Channel as a means to improve traffic
control systems during foggy weather.
Mr. Barkley plans to attend the February 6, 1991 City Council meeting to address the
City Council regarding his request and to respond to any questions the City Council
may have regarding the matter. Additional information regarding this request is on
file in the City Clerk's office.
FUNDING: None required.
�� h &WC&
Alice M. Reimche
City Clerk
AMR/imp
APPROVED: — -
TNOWlAS A. PETERSON
City Manager
COUNCOM8/TXTA.02J/COUNCOM cc.
r^N
RESOLUTION NO.
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LODI SUPPORTING
THE ESTABLISHMENT BY THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION OF A
CITIZENS' BAND RADIO TRAFFIC ADVISORY CHANNEL
WHEREAS during conditions of impaired visibility such as HEAVY FOG or
blowing dust, in addition to excessive speed, absence of adequate
information about the roadway ahead is a cause of regular, predictable
massive vehicle pileups with great injury and loss of life; and
WHEREAS residents of Lodi are at great risk from such massive
multiple -vehicle pileups in the fog on freeways in the Central Valley; and
WHEREAS Citizens' Band Radio holds the possibility for reducing that
toll by delivering timely information about roadway conditions; and
WHEREAS lzzk of information about roadway conditions ahead in general
contributes to much congestion, waste of time, excess consumption of fuel,
and air pollution which could be avoided if drivers knew to take alternate
routes; and
WHEREAS the existing chaotic, conflicting usage of all Citizens' Band
channels other than Emergency Channel 9 prevents an organized effort to
exchange such roadway condition information; and
WHEREAS Emergency Channel 9 usage is limited to emergency
information, excluding information that might prevent such emergencies in
the first place;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the City of Lodi supports the
Petition received September 11, 1990 by the Federal Communications
Commission petitioning the Commission to designate one of the existing
Citizens' Band Radio channels as a "Traffic Advisory" channel with usage
limited to warnings, advice, comments, questions, and answers about roadway
conditions, and with enforcement provisions similar to those of the Channel
9 Emergency Channel but less restrictive.
DATED:
ROLL CALL:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
ATTEST:
CITY CLERK MAYOR
Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
January 2, 1991
Letters to the Editor
The Tribune
P. 0. Box 867
Salt Lake City, UT 84110
Dear Mr. Fehr:
This morning there was a horrendous multi -vehicle pileup in the fog
on Interstate 215 near Salt Lake City. I live in California's Central
Valley where such pileups are common because of the ground fog that can
linger here for months during the winter. In each of the past two years I
was in the middle of a large multi -vehicle pileup in which a Manteca
resident was killed less than a hundred yards behind me.
This has gone on long enough!
I have organized a group of Central Valley residents to lobby for
improved traffic control systems in the fog. Tired of the resistence and
delays by the California transportation bureaucracy, I have filed a petition
with the Federal Communications Commission asking them to designate a
"Citizens' Band Radio Traffic Advisory Channel with usage limited to
warnings, advice, comments, questions and answers about roadway conditions,
and with enforcement sijnilar to those of the Channel 9 Emergency Channel but
less restrictive." The goal is to help us as drivers to trade information
among ourselves on the dangers ahead (without the usual CB chit-chat) until
the various governments install the systems that are available now to cut
down on these pileups. The 3/4" thick petition is presently pigeonhole: in
an obscure FCC back office. To make sure the FCC understands that there is
public interest in this petition, we are circulating supplementary petitions
and sending in those signatures.
Local teams of REACT (the group that monitors Channel 9 and does
other public-service work) have joined the effort and are collecting
signatures with us.
If you would like copies of these short -form petitions to sign or
circulate in your area, please call me at 209/823-4817 jr write me at 161 N.
Sheridan Ave. #1, Manteca, CA 95336 and I will send you some.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Barkley
-------------------- cut out, CJ-;,. give to your trierxis, circulate, collect sign( -w, mail it in - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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PETITION (Addendum to Petition for Rulemaking, Docket # l
To: The Honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission
1919 M Street N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20554
Date:
WE THE UNDERSIGNED hereby find:
-that during conditions of Impaired visibility such as HEAVY FOG or blowing dust, in addition to
excessive speed, absence of adequate information about the roadway ahead is a cause of regular, predictable
massive vehicle pileups with great injury and loss of life,
-that Citizens Band Radio holds the possibility for reducing that toll by delivering timely information
about roadway conditions,
-that lack of information about roadway conditions ahead in general contributes to much congestion,
waste of time, excess consumption of fuel, and air pollution which could be avoided if drivers knew to take
alternate routes,
-that the existing Chaotic, conflicting usage of all CB channels other than Emergency Channel 9 prevents
an organized effort to exchange such roadway condition information,
-that Emergency Channel 9 usage is limited to emergency information, excluding information that might
prevent such emergencies in the first place,
THEREFORE, we the undersigned hereby support the Petition received September 11, 1990, FCC Docket #
petitioning the FCC to designate one of the existing Citizens' Band Radio channels as a "Traffic
Advisory" channel with usage limited to =risings, adv Ice, comments, questions, and answers about roadway
conditions, and with enforcement provisions similar to those of the Channel 9 Emergency Channel but less
restrictive.
1) name (signed):
street/P.O. box:
name (printed):
city/state/zip:
f
2) name (signed):
streetlP. . box: -�
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name (printed):
city/state/zip:
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3) name (signed):
street/P.O. box:
name (printed):
city/state/zip:
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info: Mike Barkley, 161 N. Sheridan Ave. x1, Manteca, CA 95336 209/823-4817
(Submit with 1 extra copy to FCC at address at top. Comm+±nts welcome.)
-------------------- cut out, cop,— ve to your friends, circulate, collect sibrtatw^l it in - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
PETITION (Addendum to Petition for Rulemaking, Docket #
name
name (printed):
city/state/zip: i
5) name (signed):
street"P.O. box:
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name (printed):
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8) nine (signed):
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name (p
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cityistateizip:
Into: Mike Barkley, 161 N. Sheridan Ave. 01, Manteca, CA 95336 209x8234817
[Submit with t extra copy to FCC at address at top. Comments welcome.]
RESOLUTION NO. R1990-350
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE
CITY OF MANTECA SUPPORTING THE ESTABLISHMENT BY THE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION OF A CITIZENS'
- BAND RADIO TRAFFIC ADVISORY CHANNEL
WHEREAS, during conditions of impaired visibility such
as heavy fog or blowing dust, in addition to excessive
speed, absence of adequate information about the
roadway ahead is a cause of regular, predictable
massive vehicle pileups with great injury and loss of
life; and
WHEREAS, in each of the past two years, a citizen of
Manteca has died in such massive multiple -vehicle
pileups in the fog on freeways in the vicinity of
Manteca; and
WHEREAS, Citizens' Band Radio holds the possibility
for reducing that toll by delivering timely
information about roadway conditions; and
WHEREAS, lack of information about roadway conditions
ahead in general contributed to much congestion, waste
of time, excess consumption of fuel, and air pollution
which could be avoided if drivers knew to take
alternate routes; and
WHEREAS, the existing chaotic, conflicting usage of
all Citizens' Band channels other than Emergency
Channel 9 prevents an organized effort to exchange
such roadway condition information; and
WHEREAS, Emergency Channel 9 usage is limited to
emergency information, excluding information that
might prevent such emergencies in the first place;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the City of
Manteca supports the Petition received September 11,
1990, by the Federal Communications Commission.
petitioning the Commission to designate one of the
existing Citizens' Band Radio channels as a "Traffic
Advisory" channel with usage limited to warnings,
advice, comments, questions, and answers about
RESOLUTION NO. R -j90-350
PAGE 2
roadway conditions, and with enforcement provisions
similar to those of the Channel 9 Emergency Channel
but less restrictive.
DATED: November 19, 1990
ROLL CALL:
AYES: Councilmen Balsinger, Flores, Mezzetti,
Perry and Snyder
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ATTEST:
JOA TILTON ACK C. SNYDER
CITY CLERK MAYOR
-------------------- cut out, cY',
give toyour friends, circulate, collect signat"' ,mail it in -------------------
PETITION (Addendum to Petition for Rulemaking, Docket # )
To: The Honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission
1919 M Street N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20554
Date:
WE THE UNDERSIGNED hereby find:
-that during conditions of impaired visibility such as HEAVY FOG or blowing dust, in addition to
excessive speed, absence of adequate information about the roadway ahead is a cause of regular, predictable
massive vehicle pileups with great injury and loss of life,
-that Citizens Band Radio holds the possibility for reducing that toll by delivering timely information
about roadway conditions,
-that lack of information about roadway conditions ahead In general contributes to much congestion,
waste of time, excess consumption of fuel, and air pollution which could be avoided If drivers knew to take
alternate routes,
-that the existing chaotic, conflicting usage of all CB channels other than Emergency Channel 9 prevents
an organized effort to exchange such roadway condition information,
-that Emergency Channel 9 usage is limited to emergency information, excluding Information that might
prevent such emergencies in the first place,
THEREFORE, we the undersigned hereby support the Petition received September 1:, 1990, FCC Docket 8
, petitioning the FCC to designate one of the existing Citizens' Band Radio channels as a 'Traffic
Advisory" channel with usage limited to warnings, advice, comments, questions, and answers about roadway
conditions, and with enforcement provisions similar to those of the Channel 9 Emergency Channel but fess
restrictive.
1) name (s gn ):
street/P.O. box: !i
,
i
name (printed):
city/state/zip:
Ii
2) name (signed):
street.1P.O. box:
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name (printed):
citylstate/zip:
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3) name (signed):
streetrP.O. box: ii
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name (printed):
city/state/zip: if
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Info: Mike Barkley, 161 N. Sheridan Ave. #i, Manteca, Cil 95336 2091823-4817
(Submit with 1 extra _,opy to FCC at address at top. Comments welcome.]
'"N
--------------------cut out, cop' re to your friends, circulate, collectsignature�ailitin-------------------
PETITION (Addendum to Petition for Rulemaking, Docket # )
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name (printed):
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9) name (signed):
street/P.O. box:
I,
name (printed):
city/state/zip:
Info: Mike Barkley, 161 N. Sheridan Ave. a1, Manteca, CA 95336 209823-4817
[Submit with 1 extra copy to FCC at address at top. Comments welcome.]
6A The Knoxville Journal Wednesday. December 12, 1990
CB. radio alerted him
of rouble on interstate
The Associated Press
CALHOUN — Bill Johnson left home for an-
other day of work at McKinnon Bridge. Co. of
Franklin, Tenn. By 10 o'clock, however, both
his day and his -status had changed considera-
bly.
Johnson survived Tuesday's deadly chain -
reaction accident that killed 15.
® At least 15 dead, 46 hurt in 1-75 pileup, 1A
13 Rescue efforts hit or miss in smoke, haze, 1A
He also talked two people out of a truck
where they could have sent the death toll
the worst since -Tennessee began. keeping re-
cords 20 years ago -- still higher.
Johnson, 45, of Kingsport, Tenn., was head-
ed south on Interstate _ 75 near, Calhoun* about
9:30 a.m. when his citizen's band radio started
crackling that there was trouble ahead on the -
fog -shrouded highway. -
"Everybody was hollering on the CB's, `Set
it down,"' said Johnson. "I stopped because I
could see the tail lights of the truck ahead. But
when I stopped, another one hit me in the
back." _
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Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
BEFORE THE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20554
In re: )
)
Petition of Michael J. Barkley ) No:
for Rulemaking )
TABLE OF CONTENTS
I. Petition for Rulemaking
d
P. 1
II. Proposed Amendment P. 1
III. Arguments in Support of Requested Action p. 2
IV. Interests of Petitioner p. 3
V. Draft Notice of Proposed Rulemaking p. 6
VI. Verification p. 7
Exhibit A - Newspaper clippings and photographs of multiple -
vehicle accidents in fog (or blowing dust)
Exhibit B - Letters to the Editor or Editorials on fog traffic
safety
Exhibit C - Correspondence with state government officials on fog
traffic safety
Exhibit D - "usenet" debate on proposal for a Citizens' Band
Traffic Advisory Only Channel
Exhibit E - Draft Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
ld
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281
Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. $1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
BEFORE THE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20554
In re:
Petition of Michael J. Barkley ) No:
for Rulemaking )
)
)
To: The Commission
I. PETITION FOR RULEMAKING
1. Pursuant to 47 cfr Section 1.401, Michael J. Barkley
hereby petitions the Federal Communications Commission for
amendment of Section 95.407 of the Commission's rules to establish
a Citizens' Band Radio "Traffic Advisory" Channel; and petitoner
respectully represents as follow:
II. PROPOSED AMENDMENT
2. Petioner requests the following revision in Section
95.407 of the rules, 47 cfr Section 95.407, with respect to usage
of one Citizens' Band Radio Channel, a new subdivision (h):
"(h) Channel 17 may be used only for the posting or
exchange of traffic advisory information."
or such other Channel as the Commission chooses.
3. Petitioner also requests that the Commission adopt as
an explanatory note in a fashion similar to t. -e Commission's
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"Appendix" to the Commission's "Report and Order" establishing
Channel 9 as the "Emergency Channel" at 22 FCC 2d 635, a
definition of "traffic advisory" as including usage limited to
warnings, advice, comments, questions, and answers about roadway
conditions.
4. Petitioner also requests that -the Commission promptly
draft and adopt a preliminary non-binding resolution urging the
Nation's pool of Citizens' Band Radio Users that they try using
Channel 17 (or such other Channel as the Commission chooses) on a
voluntary basis for "traffic advisory information" only, until
such timne as the Commission can explore the issues presented
herein.
III. ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF REQUESTED ACTION
5. During conditions of impaired visibility such as heavy
I
fog or blowing dust, in addition to excessive speed, absence of
adequate information about the roadway ahead is a cause of
regular, predictable massive vehicle pileups with great injury an
loss of life,
6. Citizens' Band Radio holds the possibility for reducing
that toll by delivering timely information about roadway
conditions,
7. Lack of information about roadway conditions ahead in
general contributes to much congestion, waste of time, excess
consumption of fuel, and air pollution which could be avoided if
drivers knew to take alternate routes,
8. The existing chaotic, conflicting usage of all
Citizens' Bard Radio channels other than "Emergency Channel 9"
interferes with any organized effort to use a CB Radio to exchang
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such roadway condition information,
9. "Emergency Channel 9" usage is limited to emergency
information, excluding information that might prevent such
emergencies in the first place, and as a consequence is usually
"dead air"•and thus not monitored by motorists who could be war
of actual emergencies had they had reason to monitor it.
10. Designation of a "traffic advisory" Citizens' Band
Radio Channel would be the fastest and cheapest way to improve
traffic safety in the fog as well as traffic flow during congested
conditions, and, in fact would generate substantial net state and
local sales tax revenue as opposed to alternate systems which cost
state and local tax dollars.
IV. INTERESTS OF PETITIONER
11. On December 14, 1988 petitioner was driving to work
westbound on California State Route 120 (a limited access,
high-speed highway) at 30 miles per hour during conditions of
heavy fog. As a flatbed truck loomed in front of him and he
realized it was stopped, petitioner barely had time to merge into
the passing lane and move past it. Traffic was stopped in that
passing lane another 20 vehicles ahead. Shortly thereafter a
furniture van slammed into the flatbed truck and the four or five
vehicles in front of it, killing the driver of that flatbed truck,
Robert E. Travers, a resident of Manteca. Altogether, 30 more
than vehicles were involved, with one fatality, and 24 people
taken to various hospitals.
12. On December 18, 1989 petitioner was driving to work
westbound on California State Route 120 at 30 miles per hour
during conditions of heavy fog. At the point where SR 120 merges
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woo
with Interstate 5, petitioner and the two vehicles following him
barely had time to stop behind stopped traffic. Moments later a
car slammed into the car two cars behind petitioner, climbed over
that car, and burst into flame. Then vehicles on I-5 began to
slam into stopped trafic next to petitioner's car. Petitioner
personally saw a half dozen collisions and heard a half dozen
more. As with the incident the year before, less than a hundred
yards behind petitioner up on I-5 a Manteca resident, John Henry
Degler, was killed, his vehicle driven under or shoved under the
trailer of a jack-knifed truck, crushed, and completely burned.
Altogether, 60 to 80 vehicles were involved, with one fatality,
and 29 to the hospital.
13. In both of these incidents, California Highway Patrol
was aware of the hazardous conditions for many hours before the
actual conditions, and of the initial collisions for many minutes
before the collisions p�aritioner witnessed, but CHP had no way to
warn the motoring public about either what the maximum safe speed
was at that moment or"to warn the motoring public that lanes were
obstructed ahead.
14. Petitioner fears for his life and the lives of his
neighbors if conditions are permitted to continue where the
motoring public is not advised in every possible way of these
dangers. Petitioner no longer believes the current fog
accident -prevention measures are effective.
15. Over the past seven months petitioner has collected
newspaper clipping regarding nui,erous other multiple -vehicle
collisions at times of impaired visibility, and attaches portions
of the collections as Exhibit A. Exhibits A-1 and A-2 refer to
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the accidents on December 14, 1988. Exhibits A-3 and A-4 refer to
the ones on December 18, 1989. Similar accidents in Selma,
California, on January 39, 1990 went on for an hour and a half,
Exhibit A-5. One for which no clippings are included occurred
just south of Manteca, on December 1, 1986 involved 136 vehicles,
and stretched over 8 miles although there were no fatalities.
16. Petitioner has written letters to the editor of
numerous newspapers in the Central valley fog belt to share
various ideas on traffic control systems to improve fog traffic
safety, and worked to collect a group of a dozen or so people who
are interested in solving this problem. Examples of the letters
are attached as Exhibit B, along with a pair of editorials and
letters from other concerned citizens.
17. Petitioner has engaged in a written correspondence
with members of the government of the State of California to
attempt to raise the state's consciousness on the need to reduce
this annual slaughter. Although not much has been accomplished
with the State, the latest letter from California Assemblyman
Patrick Johnston (who represents petitioner's district) is
encouraging, Exhibit C-14. Of note is the pair of California
Senate Resolutions at Exhibit C-11 pages 2 and 3, which are 25 to
27 years old: during the intervening years the state has come up
with a system of three sets of plastic markers, a system of
convoying vehicles through fog which isn't being done any more
because of budget cuts, and NOTHING else.
18. Despairing of a timely response from the state,
petitioner posted an early draft of this petition to the "usenet"
computer network, targeting groups interested in transportation,
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driving, emergency services, ham radio, and shortwave radio.
Support for the proposal to designate a traffice advisory channel
was high, although some posters had problems with it. The entire
52 -page debate, uncensored and candid, is attached hereto as
Exhibit D in support of this petition.
19. Petitioner believes this is an opportunity to divert
radio channel capacity that is largely wasted to a use that will
help the same people who are presently underutilizing it. They
would not lose it, they would get it back, better, disciplined,
useful. Petitioner believes that this channel desianation will
help save lives and reduce injury and property loss, including
petitioner's own, and therefore prays that the Commission will
docket this petition, consider its merits, collect such public
input as the Commission deems necessary, and adopt the rule
change.
V. DRAFT NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULE MAKING
20. Petitoner respectfully submits herewith the Draft
Notice of Proposed Rulemaking attached hereto as Exhibit E.
WHEREFORE, petitioner respectfully requests that the
Commission institutes a rulemaking proceeding in accordance with
law and under the provisions of 47 cfr Sections 1.401 et seq., and
to thereupon amend its rules pursuant to the above proposal.
Dated - 1990 /
I
Nameq:
Sig _ to e: r
/i.1 Gia e �J.
Address: ` vq. t� l
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VI. VERIFICATION
Micl'ael J. Barkley, being first duly sworn, on oath,
deposes and says: that he is the petitioner in the foregoing
11matter; that he has read the within and foregoing petition and
knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things
therein stated are true and of his own knowledge save and except
'those matters therein stated on information and belief, and as to
those he believes them to be true; that to the best of his
knowledge and believ there is good ground to support the within
petition; and that the within petition is not interposed for the
purpose of delay. // A
Signature:J-el
Subscribed and sworn to before me at
California, this 23evl( day of v_41L t , 1990.
Signature: '
OFFICIAL SRAL
r UZc' C BAKER-
' -M
:A Notary Public in and for the County
CONTL� ccs�� cas:zr z
MY r ren. e_a es iY , 15, 1547of
•moi State
of California.
-7-
(Origional of photo that appeared in the Manteca News, 12/16/88, p. 2, with the caption:) Four of tlx eight
vehicles involved in an eight car chain reaction pile up on the Highway 120 bypass Thursday moming. 11te
accident left one man dead and 17 injured, including four conficted felons being transported to Deuel
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The sto
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Thursday, pecember 15. t9t38 Price 35C
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killed,injureddozens in fog
Fog -Related Accidents
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Manteca
SfTE OF ;-f * r�
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Fataccide
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-_ i -'99 1:
Hospitals
busy but
prepared
By STEPHANIE SANSOM
Bee sue .mer
FRENCH t..:.\1P — After the
first victims of the dense fog ar-
rived in San Joaquin General
Hospital's emergency depart-
ment Wednesday morning• chief
emergency physician Richard
Buys stepped briefly outside and
prayed for the sun to quickly
burn a hole through the white
shroud coating the area.
At noon, four hours after the
first victims arrived and seven
hours into Buys' shift, he was
!rill treating one of the 31 people
injured in accidents in San Joa-
quin County within Mo hours.
And the fog still blanketed
southern Sart Joaquin County.
Thanks to an effin'•nt disaster
plan. however, the injured re-
ceived medical care rapidly at
hospitals throughout San Joa-
quin County and at Doctor- Dted-
ical Center in Modesto.
Two years ago, it would have
�etn mass chaos because wedidn't have this systern in place,'
sats Hoa Baldwin of Sun Joaquin
County's Off?cr. of Emergency
Services
Nurse Martin Summerf old of
Doctors llospitai of Manteca
Sea Back Pa ,r;, HOSPITALS
Forrest G. Jackson J. /The Baro
San Joaquin County deputy Al Ortiz checks truck In which Roberl Travers died Monday.
Wrecks shut
120 bypass
for 4 hours
■ valley motorists must learn to
live wim the tag. Page A-16.
By BRYCE WHITE
bee stall wnsw
MANTECA — Chain-reacticn
crashes in dense fog kallvd one
person, sent 24 others to hospi-
tals andsmashed more than 30
cars early Wednesday on the
Manteca Bypass and Interstate 5.
Pronounced dead at the scene
was Robert Travers, 37• of Man•
teca, who was killed in one series
of crashes involing eight cars or.
the Highway 120 bypass east of
Union Road.
Rescue workers found the
body of Travers in his truck of;
the bypass roadway hidden b%
the fog.
There were seven separate
multiple -cu collisions on the 654
mile bypass between Highway 9�1
and 1-5, and 10 others on 1.5 neat
the Mossdale Y. where the by
pass connects with the interstate.
There were so many accident:
and injuries that ev'cry availablt
California Highway Patrol office!
was called out to the emergency
which began at about SAS a -m-
-It was a war zone. We were
definitely overwhelmed, no doub'
about it.' CHP spokesman Rus:
Moore said.
He said the accidents occurrec
in a thick blanket of fog covering
the southern half of San Joaquir
County that was centered in the
Manteca and Mossdale Y areas
It will take days to sort ou
what happened and why and tal
ly up the number of cars in
volved. Moor, said.
The CHP's mukiple•acciden•
invesaganon team was caled i1
to aid in the job. he said
A van carving f,,ur prisoner
from Madera Courts to Dcuc•
Vocational Institution was in
volved in one accident, sendint
the prisoners and rwo guards t.
the hospital.
Wednesday evening. an all
proachirg cold front bruugh
high w-nds gusting from 24 mpl
to 40 mph, spa•xning a dus
storm on High -way 12 near Ter
minous IsLrQ that was blame,
for a rn lvple vehk'e acci6•n1
At least four cars -ete it
Sr -e EaC- Pa;^, CRASHEI
A.18;,Thuisday. December 15, 1986 •The Modesto See - - —
T
.Back Page-
s'
_ .CRASHES: One man. killed,*,•�_s
V116
24 hurt in fo-rF;ated crashes .
:residents
CONTINUED from A 1
Even before the log rettkd k4 :
tragedy strucik En the eounty,with
volved in the 8:42 pat crash. ao-
the deaths of two people in cepa-
!Z' ` � I .. rc r•t- yL',,, . vo...t
. ` t;: ' t'r %-,tom
r _ �j :t 'rte.', -'7. c
to the CHP. No injuries
reported
rate atzidernts ,:
.acording
James Virgil
■
+,were
I ao���
it
The blowing dirt forced closure
edatu6-0 a -
akdale was killed at &30 im ,.
when his ear collided with, t .:
=is—car
( .
i ', .+" [ y : -..ir :�-: •.;•.r.
s..
■
,;�. tz
of the highway west of Interstate
truck at an intersection on High-', .:.
a'
BY
5. the CHP said The hi
remained dosed at 9 highway
D
way 4 in south Stocidon.• :.
Pott Garda St7w. Tf. or '
carpo
MICHAEL G tiii00HE1f . • ,`.
A Oce stay webs .;� r,tr •cs n. •-- •'. r. . ,
''.•Ma
Driving :Tips :. r
authorities were not sure when it
would be reopened.
Linden was killed -in a two -car
collision at Clements and Frazier :'
Ybe Zen -meditation is the
answer to surviving valley tog.. • '
_
eisAllo extra
Officers remained On the scene
roads at 7:15 am.
Concentrate. Become one with
the water vapor that condenses
eters stime. add at
west 15 minutes to their-
n
late Wednesday.
Elsewhere, fog was blamed for
A levet 2 disaster status was
declared by the San Joaquin
� _
onto hygroscopic nuclei. • eet the
droplets. as they form — ever it,
.
driving time and yaw
six dashes in Merced County —
County Office of Emergency Ser-
treadng in size and concentra-
down In dense fog.
one on Id and the rest on county
vices about 945 am Amtnulanc-
`:.
tkM until a gtwhad hug
•Use on low
roads_ No one was seriously In.
es called in from all aver the area
•
�n8 doted is born
beam and tae window
jured
took Injury victims to every has
this truth,'
rutic
defrosters
Patchy fog also was blamed for
pital in the county and to DoctorsNow
'.
you
t see a data tt hing.
. e Do not stop on tete .
another accident west of Turlock . Medial Center In Modesto. - r_
'You have to accept the fog.lf
may. Drivers veno
on West Main Street at Washing.
Ron Debelak, tower manages
yoo're going to Bve in the San :'
• must pe t the :.
ton Road No one was seriously
at Stockton Metropolitan Airport,
Joaquin Valley; said Larry
r
's>�tdde: should keep
iciu
injured in that crash according
said lne looked out tun the airport .'
Grttica a National.Weather Ser
: taillights am but those •_-
to the CHP.
runway about 11 ash and could . ;
.
'da_meteorologist '- :
Pulling completely OP the
About 750 Chatom and Moon-
see for no more than 100 yards. -
Within a minute, he changed his
;;
respect 'L
roadway should tum oil an
Vi
tain View elementary school dhil.
dren got an unexpected day off
mkA as fog got thicker.'ilte vis- :' :
••the thrust of the hem is
m drivers ache problem
:9� -- •
Keep yW t�rt�.
Wednesday when school official
ibility, now- is down to- about 50 . ;
he said:
have leave conic, drive slow.
timers should allow extra
canceled classes due to thick
Yards.7
er and leave more room' De•
� I>ehvehe tlhe4
patches of fog that jeopardized
No commercial planes had tak-. :.
tween their car and the vehicle to
veh:Cle scud the one In
bus rues Ithe rural school dict
en cif or landed since about 8
hone of tlhem said Lee Honzell, a
hone them
vof west of Turlock Almost all
the children in the district are
a m
. George Quiresma. , Manteca
California H' Patrol traffic
of4er.' y
a Watch Out for rapidly :
bused to school. An evening .
Christmas program Involving
Fire Depamnent tuttalion chief, ' {'
said that wh en arrived atone ••'
-People call us'and ask about
fog lights.7hel�te really shocked
changir g conditions..
Ground � collects in low -
third -graders at both schools also
accident site on the bypass, it - �'
,when f tell them that there's real.
tying meas, and yrs
was canceled. ' • ..
fog
was imposalbte to see much of
.
ly nothing that can hel you see t.•
can be fooled irt.o thinking
'�
Because of the and the
anything: • :
:.-better is the tog. Fpeonly ''
conditions aro
pileup of cars, the Manteca By.
-The •f96 was so 'bid Uyo-
make it easier for people t see
clearing on an upgrade
pass was dosed for four hours,
couldn't see the fences beside the
t:}.:. ~; +
�V •
on b Arid therrtsetv35 +_.
reopening about noon.
road,' he said
1.,
t
Valley fog — formally known
bade In the soup; on a
as radiation fog or ground fog,
downgrade- - : • -
Informally as tui — is an
• Approach sectios
Intersections
annual winter event in the North-;
with eau8prt Especially at
HOSPITALS: Disaster- plans
oaquin ValIn e
StanlslausemSanJ
rural kttw5ectiots with
( area. thleye averagthep
slop r to
after
bring to
cumber, of heavfog y days is 44. •
! The foggiest year on record was
a yrfvers
dsttum
ki
some order
chaos
1962 when there were 65 foggy
'
downther.a::. -m
the window and listen for
to find out how many patients
It days— ntghtz
approarhitg cars -
CONTINUED from A-1
they could handle.
1 »diction fog la fotm.d over
Next, the workers contacted
,land on clear nights when heat
loss "the
Sourm Caelbrna ttid*wv
a6*ced•
ambulances via the MedNet ra-
t by .radiathon drools
7d
-Five or ten years. ago, they
would have hauled 10
dio system and instructed them
1 ground and chills the air just •-
the surface to the dew..: 1 &
probably
or 15 of those people here,'and
where to take their tient&
Responding to the disaster was
}above
1 point '= the. temperature
we
we would have just been'over-
more complex than usual be •
1 which water vapor condenses, '..fog
is heaviest_ If you be-
he said. - "
As it worked out, Doctors.
cause the marry crashes
throughout the county, Baldwin
I according to Don Ahrens.-� . •-
` Ahrens, a Modesto Junior Col- ,
(heavy) commuter traffic and
little fog, you have problems..
Tracy Community Memorial and
uld
lege instnitxor, details the phe-
I'm trouble spots• according
Dameron Hospital In Stockton
each received five injured pa-
Nonetheless, tide thought it
went real well., said Summer•
nomerton in`a textbook that he
thored, eteorology To. .r
has au'M
Honzell. ate the commuter car
.dos. In Stanislaw County tho
tients, Lodi Memorial received
field.
day.'
tndude• Highway IA High—
three, Doctors Medical Center,
When the fog begins to form,
99 north, Geer. Albers._Hatt
two, and St. -Joseph's Medical
`The patients did not come In
the top of the tog layer replaces
and 1Gernan roads and Santa I
Center in -Stockton. one.
all at once. And we kept getting
the ground as the s6ddace to be
Avenue. . .
Because It had more doctors
information on them.'
tooled by ndiation.\ilte thick- -
Commuters Just 'don't ter
and nurses an hand, San'Josquin
Barbara Green, executive di-
ness of the fog will continue to
themselves enough tithe- to cot
General received 10 patients.
rector of the regional Emergency
. build as long as there is moist air :_,
pensate for the slower drivii
The number -of . crashes
Medical Services Agency, said all
above it:;:r• .: •.. '.
conditions that the fog dictates.
prompted the Office of Emergen-
local counties except Calaveras`
In the valley flue fog�p Iy'•,,;.And
'
even in the face of rad
cy Services to declare: a Level 2
have had a similar plan to handle
medicat_' disasters for several
is 1.000 to 1,000 feet high So it is.
not uncommon for footlnlill rest
play disasters like the Highw,
120 mess some motorists st
medical emergency at 9:45 am.
According to plan, the emer-
years.
dents to enjoy bright stinshine
'valley
don't get the idea': •_
loan% medical workers at San
Baldwin said hospitals, para-
while Modesto and the •
fioar remaltu shrouded ul damp
• Honzell was one of the Moi.
Joaquin General Hoigital imme•
medics, firefighters and o,hers
,
murkiness. - • •
to -based CHP orticers called
distely put out a conference call
participate in drills to practice
-
But the fog
rssist - with traffic Conti
seven to sen hospitals in the county
'their roles in medical disasters.
ground•hugging
ca d hn d h
Wednesday morning In sot
n vary gree y e sty over San Joaquin County. :
short distances Driven frequent.
ly encounter unexpectedlyidense. �1 had everything flashing U
�C�1 I n patches of fog on freeways• I could — red hghts, blue ligl
streets and roads as was the case — and 1 had peop:e trying to p:
Wednesday in south San Joaquin me; Hon"A said.
County -
But the density of the fog*realty .' McClatchy News Service wrru
ls bot the problem• he said. : : Scott Reeves conuibuted to t'
;;•'It doesn't matter where the repon
.orning, ire -�� r a D o n t �� a likely lee l to �J
Hospital c �rs y;,
P
-jesday gift to communityretake 49er helm •► ' `�:. :
Dec. 19. 1989 ; — Local, A-3 . ; —Sports, d-1
b:
Mantec;i,',. ulleL"In
:).353 531 E_ Yosefrlte (P_0. Box 912), Manu a, CA 95336 25 CENTS
;rleafher
y travel
n G. mddn's
:$ boosting line.
.y tra'd bug travel
-eft aid Jt(orday
srera b h$ve .
Am than wuaL
it saying. 'they.
. in Chicago, ht's
'sere for • fire,
3mt DoCtmen- .
.dere hof Ieisare
Cooh Tames
L
cuzzc .= M
:-oven tat. n
, g, . enrwreere
and they don't
. bcm" said clif[
air ptesidee :
J cote k a -god• -
rel $scam The
oft the book••
.ores Mwda�-
: below aero on
•lanantbe teras
:f and in the 20s
Cates PafttssMia
r temperuures,
3 depote below
below,- were
: 810 wefkpla n -
'dtreboa Ohio;
Padiiti4 KT-'
of a6tnt ,`i+A«�•
hacrease etre: i
feCOat ' COfi
:id earlier this,
icy were,satsiag
a their popular
aced (area cour-
t a blamSaverm
Kriines also
..y wOWd waive
A,ninee-purchase
'etweeu Det 20
On (Ea .. am
r a.
:$ surv$y of esu• :
nide found that
hoot SONOM are
arse drugs than
S, aCCOrtlirng b
.fed .:, ..
A -S .
t Jule Gayror, -.
Mantecan kille-d In foslei
CHIP: It
was a
war zone
TAY SARGUIS
The 8uswdn
One man was kilted and at ksast 30
note were injured in a wits of fog-
teaed .tridents n Sae Joaquin
Carry Mondry —as. Including
a fhae-ItlC40n iCOdaR in Olx'ias
more than 60 vehicles at the
ners«tioe Mttlwfwte s erd tare,•
Jnr 2(33.
Three repersm rues nitabing
mrYifee xehicles mere ansa started
by de ceetisiorts m er .road south-
bound 1.5. Ons of the fast killed a
Maneca roan and seriously injured
two others.
Jobe Hairy Dcgler. 3g. died hots
head tiatmm and "desroobanu.-
according to the county tori ner s
office. after his Chevrolet salon
plowed into a jaekkaited tractor -
trader an the Mordak Bridge.
Three other cars also collided
wIth the uaf4r before caching on
hue. Keith Dcpcw, 2g, of Saeraneo-
10. received serious burns to his legs
aid (me, while Demy Fumado. 25.
of Rancho Cordova, also received
burns to his face in dna rive.. They
went tinted in serious but stable eon•
diode and far but stable condition.
respective y, a Son Joaquin Genal
Hwpid Monday ;vening.
Depew was trapped in his ate -ton
truck For rep to 13 minutes before he
was pulled ate by bystanders who
were assisting emergency persbmel.
Cafifomia Mighway Patrol Public
Affairs Officer Bob whit." Grid
marl y 30 accidents were reported in
the away Monday momma, and
that the shun -reaction accident on
1-5 and I.2DS inrohvd 23 separate
collisions between SS automobiles
end U tacks. "it was a win tone:
be,, said. Some collisions ala
occurred on the portion of west.
bound 1lighway 1=0 heading into
14.
The number of accidents
prompted arae office of Emet remy
Service to declare a twirl 11 coin•
trwdc emergency, to ensure prober
dganiration of patient transporta-
tion. A Level if emrrgewy mil"ires
that all cmcrg •racy calls arc camdi
issued thnwgh San lwquin Generai
Hen -W. and Out off duq emerge.
Sit FOG, Page A-3
A
AJ
Maotemi.sthrop Rural Fke Dsirc'f personnel mop up the rury wreck that cDhn M the Went one mars and m tusly mused Iwo osiers on the
Mossdsle bridge Monday tllornhlq. ;
Local men . help save driver from fiery' tomb
TAY SARGUIS
drrver for CouLt Lumber of
ore-sonuuck.wnh Neupperhslr
The 5u0"a
Stockton. At approximately 8: IS
of his body hanging out the drive
Monday ovimng's disastrous
a.m. he was stopped just south or
tui s door window,
accident an scumbound Inver-
the Martulsld Bridge b a series of
NTu followed was a sense 10.
states S and 203 probably
cisd4 eis began backing up from
to i5-minuiediama3s Armsuarg
wouldn't love occu—i if is
1-:03 onw 1-5.
and rtU:rra attemped to pull
hasn't ham"i at rush hour. but
Armstrong got out of has truck
Depcw out of the truck. .10c try
eche timing of the wreck could
and aidcd one man with head
ng to teat back the Marries.
helve been a btesung in dtsguise.
inptnea and anolhcs woman who
It was burning big-time'
The number of cdluutvas and
.at paruieking. Moments knee,.
Armwong mid. -It. snrsed yell.
injured invdvtd in the accider«s
things really began to beat up.
ng and screaming that the rue
— appmvtmmety _S and 20.
-1 looked up and saw a buck
was getting to him. We were
respectiucly - made rescue
jackknife: Armstrong said.
sMyog hue extinguishers inside
work overwheiming for
-riven t ear a big c.plosion and
to keep the lkatnet from coming
emcsseney personnel respundin;
Uurtct."
up has kgs.'
to the disaster, including firefigh
Armstrong grabbed his fire
One of the first to write a the
urs from the %LW4CC3 _Xth"
cati,:gui% rr and ren back up
scene of tie suiggle was Amin
Rwal Fuc Cmtrict,
scuthtound LS, where scvcgl
Broil meyer. 27, or Sonata. who
Fu>.rwnart�. emcrgcncy per-
vchkles had collided wrth a bag
was coming home from
sonncl .circ among tic large
ng. The fust Ger to hos the work, a
Lawrence Livermore 1.0" so-
numtw•r ofwt-q were
Chrvselei Irdan. cenumed John
mea, where he is ear" at a
enuhcr muck m traffic or able to
Her y Degter, M. of Manuca,
fueGghter. ironically. Drgkr
soup and he'.p au.l :he ,nurrd. Our
whin, died rrrrn his injuutes.
ala woAcd fur Ul.,
man, bot—'. went atm.. 4.1
But Arrnwtng was unaware Of
Mockmeycr saw the `tall of
b<..md tl+ mail of duty.
Dell— He wn conecrfrd with
rre" and said the our -sur, truck
i4—, Ed-' Ann•.:: u,g, 3 i.
Xath f,cpew, l3. of Sxramenio,
was "thrcc-quarwis involved" .n
c! L.0—P,,a<mpw . r,3as a Tuck
who was upped in sus burning
flan— by the tune lK rexhed nuc
J
Janes Armflror4
he Cs fart C'vt•r
wh..k.
quire m:r..rr. ••th rhe r.•e
See 11} ROFS. pa,-- A -r
'L THE M, ECA BULLETIN -TUESDAY, DECEMBEF . 1989 PAGE A-3 .. _
i �Y S_i � �._ �' ! � I 'Iv -' 'M'•rr �. gas �$�� '
.x ■ '' � p - li .r,� '*: r. r.�.v .ir� .-7� >vyayr'O E• _
.�%�+�5`.. 'ill. I♦]' '- ... s-. y 4 .,:..'X4 r34^ ...��.'
iFrotn _Page A-1 - a
'cy personnel return to work. =,
' b.
� _Tracy CHP Officer Kett Milligan
�iid the chain -reaction wreck appa-
_gently started at approximately 8
;a m. on westbound I-205 with a non-
injury collision involving two cars.
Quickly slowing traffic caused a ''""
series of collisions on I-205 in rapid SUE BOWUNGlThe Bulekt
succession, including a three -car This minor -Injury collision was one of many that dotted Interstates 5
collision and a six -car collision. and 205 following a chaln-reaction accident In dense fog Monday
Collisions then began on the morning.
southbound lanes of I-5 is ding up mire. Casualties were received at six
to 1-205, including a two -car colli lision involving 132 cars occurred
sign, a two -truck, four -car collision county hospitals, including Doctors on Highway 99 in Ripon.
` and another two -ear Collision. Most
Hospital of Manteca, while numer- Fog conditions were expected to
1} of the accidents caused minor or no ous ambulance companies ware tran'' be even worse today, with density
�j used to sport the injured. expected to reach zero visibility in
some places. Icing will also be n
The fatal collision occurred at Milligan said almost all the colli- o
'I
least 20 minutes after the fust wreck, sions on 1.5 and 1-205 involved , bridges ridges °rn andd overpasses. Manteca
g hazard, especially on
and prompted .the CHP to clo:,e ' speeding vehicles hitting cars that
was effectively "socked in" by 7:30
southbound 1-5, which wasn't had come to a stop. He said visibility .
4 p.m. Monday. night-
.....
cleared and reopened until noon. was about •100 feet, which mews :CHP was not exactly sure how
ha vehic c moving..faster.that 30..
The morning situation v<•as further .. _ "in' inany'injurics had occurred Monday
complicated '-by • other. _f6g-related t. mph would not be ,able iot'sfop;:. morning, and whether more than two
accidents that occurred in other parts
time.
-were seriously injured. However,
of the `county, including at the San Joaquin County declared a • • hospitals mported'hat mostaccident
intersection of Interstate 12 and I-5, similar emergency almost one year victims were treated and released.-
on
eleased.on southbound Highway 99 in ago to the day'after a series of asci- Doctor Hospital of Manteca did not
Stockton, and in Farmington. dents claimed three lives and keep any of the accident victims.
At least 89 vehicles were involved resulted in 30 injuries on 1-5 and kept a CHP officer who com-
in the collisions, according to Whit- 1-205. In 1986, a chair= -reaction col- plained of chest pains.
Heroes' at that point was right on our backs." Brockmeyer also had high praise
Armstrong said. for Scott Doan. 27, of Manteca, a
Depew was listed in serious but San Leandro firefighter who was
From Page A-1 stable condition at San Joaquin Gen- also returning from work Monday
exploding," Brockmeyer said. "i`iy oral Hospital Monday night with morning.
life was reaUy in danger, and so was bums to his face and legs. His friend Doan said when he arrived at the
Jim's.'But there was no way were and fellow employee,.Denny Furta- accident scene he helped firefighters
getting out of there without this guy, do, 25, of Rancho Cordova, was also' set up a "triage" to help pick cut
and I think Jim felt the same way. listed in fair and stable condition injured persons who needed imme'-
we were so close." with burns to. his face, which he diate transportation to the hospital.
Armstrong and Brockmeyer desp- apparently received while also try- "there were quite a few bystanders
crately tried to pull Dcpew out, ing to save Depew. trying to help," Doan said.
whose legs were trapped under the Armstrong was treated at San Joa- Brockmeyer said Doan helped a
truck's steering column. As the two quin General and rebased following large number of people with injuries.
men worked, bystanders threw any- his rescue efforts. — ---'-
thing on they could on the fire to Brockmeyer said Armstrong was 11,
keep the flames back, using car the "real hero" of the day. 1
extinguishers, containers of water, "I think he deserves a lot of credit.
and even IV solutions and soft t I kind.of feel compelled to do it, .
drinks. Armstrong said at ons point because it my job. lie jumped right
he gave Dcpcw a drink of water 'in it and did_ it."
when he asked for it.
Finally, the two men got ilicir I
hands on a pair of crowbars, which Fr.
they used to pry tic steering column ` "at A drive frocn Sari Francikscci s
up, allowing Depew to slide.
out Fisherman's wharf, there's no
I without a moment to spare . "!'hfire •
13t fF���ence A 'bctter PhCC to �;Ct za,Vto.
\Y`l".0—, ;. .h.vran.. r.r . Jillo -
�-� � .�� -_ �........
0ow-off,--Toy connectors ,share 1NFL_0tf ptay;picture ;.
Ivo st``drop intoes s - long lasting favorites ,lookstike neat4mess
-- -
�e0 oft- mea «�*rear e� 2rs No Miltendo in mLw xr,•S tun &play �i� team .sal:aWe:_wiir,:we�tc to go
A`•'. r�.7% •s,„Py^ @I+Sirfl33/�6 - LMng/C! a.s,t�, 't tee• '4'f•.•..i w^, "7SpnK?!lDt.:
19.
Modesto B e
SAN JOAQUIN/TUOLUMNE EDITION
:989 The Modesto Bee Tuesday. December 19. 1989 Price 35c
1 killedin `oar r zone' of (redwcay afog
Dozens hurt
n comrrnute
lour pileups
lay! matt GORDON� ri T
s J- .:rj.ii+►�rf.'Y�v.'+�h:..'�; -
MANFECA — One man -as
Alois and at least 32 other Poo-
:e were injured Monday morn. % t ' ' .•:�_. '.�-+-_.;; .: ' i,- . ”
,c in a series or tog -related soder , + • ; tti : < a t + r .-
nts on a dtme-mire stttMr of�. ::
cConvergence
-enray at the C nvergeennce of laL "!l..1..:.: •i •- : • r.•:y..i/)•._ "•'
(States 205 and S aral HlOrWay, •� { `i1i•�j ',Y•fr-�N i'r-1s��f1 �
rot
Eyewitnesses said can and -t' f
.vdts were QashinKK oK one so- +'• rot ^ ��• .
aMr and ware vedicles ertspred
frames, westbound 1-200 and --
euthbountd 13 were tittered with
. mashed or burned ars and - � .....
vcks. prompting one person to
*scribe it as s -star tore.'
The dead man was idendriedVON 11 ii
,..John Henry Begler. 38, of
vtamom Stuart Goto" So' San kutq n cow" eumac
m
San Joaquin County officials A Manteca an died when his car crashed into the rear of iitractor-trifler rig Monday on southbound an -ramp to Interstate 5 at Mossdala Y.
+eclared an emergency alen to
•.cep addidonal medial person- - c -
,el on duty at area hospitals
•hrough the awning.
In Mereed Coanry, asst 1Mng-
11on businesses were evacuated
•tar the mighway 99 rraltk skg-
,al when ""trucks. one of them
pickup tarsydng hazardous
ic
hemals used in swimming
toots, coulded in the tog. The
.vck spilled 16 gallons of chlo.
rrN and four gallons of awristie
•dd. sold CNP Sgt Men Griffin.
In the San loaqutn'Coumy sc
•.dews berwten Tracy and Mao-'
sea, near the Mosadate Y. dm-
�ns o/ firefighters. s..,irr,
'eputks. CHP officers and para-
.:edics were &%aimed by passing
ostorim$ in trying to aid the in.
ured, exrlrguish Ore$ and re-
move victims trapped in their
-ruahtd whKk .
The accidents. which began
.-only aft" g s.tn on the com-
-ter-dogged heeways, dosed
:ht two imerstaus and backed
:p traftk on Highway 120. The
n,,eured were taken to hospitals in
.Aanteca. Tracy. FrenO Camp
2 strangers join forces
to save man from fire
BySTUAAT GORDON
mirror and as or a sudden 1 sa..
stet arae
hunch of cars coming cut of Nr
MANTECA — For 10 fariow
cog. They lust slammed on their
minutes Monday morning. lames
brakes and started tinning .ntr
Armstrong Jr. and Arnie Broca.
each other and the cars in trone
mire made a decision that few of ,
of them he said
us ever have to face.
A Mvrang, wind was maldni s
The choice was between their
dehvery for the lumber company
own instinct for self-pntsemdon
he wwories for. jumped out of he
and ■ humanitarian impulse to -
truck and began heaping the in
prevem someone else's death.
jured on tut freeway when h.
Armstrong. a 31 -year-old Ls-
looked up again and soar more
Nrop pati e, and Btxkmtre. a
whides coming out of the fog.
27•year-old Sonora resident.
-There were cars between me
chose the later.
ant thea. I heard this preny big
Both were driving near Tracy
explosion and saw a big bail o!
oo fog -shrouded Interstate S
firs thr-u,h the fog &taut 10%
Monday morning when ail M9
yards back' he said.
broke loose about 9 a.m.
He me back to `is truck
He and motorists around him
grabbed a smaLr tint uttngutshe
had stowed almost to a mop be-
and than raced to the flames. He
Cause aaffte was dogged from
found several cars and a true}
on accident ahead of them.
See Bark Pose, FOG Chemicals spilled from th!s pickup In rear -end accident in the fog In 1Jvingslon Monday. '1 looked up in my rearview Sew sad Para. RESCUE
t-18 Tuesday, December 19, 1989 a The Modesto Bee "
awwwrr
The. Back Pave
FOG'. "Chemical'=spill
CONTINUED from Mt
snd Stockton. The interstates re-
opened at about 11 a.m, a CHP
Vokeswoman said.
'We called officers in !rom the
afternoon shift, and we had off- -
duty firefighters, off-duty high-
way patrolmen and off-duty para-
medics stop to help: said High-
+ ay Patrol spokesman.' Bob '
Whitmire
CHP Sgt Ion Perry, one of the
first on -duty law enforcement of-
ficers
fricers at the scene of the fatal
wreck, said the sequence of
Hashes 'started our as anaccl
dent on westbound I-205 in the
Tracy area. Traffic was backing
up on the freeway here ftom that "
first ac klene -
Perry had arrived shortly atter
8 a.m. at the scene of an accident
involving a tractor -trailer and
two can on the Highway 120 en-
trance to I-5 when the fatal acci-
dent occurred about 300 yards
away.
'We had a jackknifed truck
and two can on fire.' Perry said
As I got out of the car. I could
see traffic coming to a stop here
on the and then it all
started They test kept running
into the lack of each other.'
VL%bilfty at the time ranged be-
tween 50 feet and ISO feet on the
three highways. , . . • ' ..
"I couldn't see the fatal crash,
but I could bear heavy trucks
locking their brakes up and then
heavy Impacts, and then I could
bear an explosion. Then 1 could
see the fire through the fog' Per-
ry
erry sak L -Everyone started yelling
that there was somebody trapped
up here.'
Perry began handing out flares
spurs:evacuation�4-Livingston traffic,light"
Fog -Related
-Literally we had some heroes ..
.out here today,' Perry said
'. •Depeves truck was Involved m
:the same pileup that led to Be- _
gier's death: The 'fatality oc
carred when a tar smashed into
the back of a tractor -trailer rig
and erupted in flames just north
of the Highway 120 entrance on-,
to southbound IS. :—I
Jim Pillsbury -of Lodi an ap---
prentiee carpenter who was driv-
ing to Pleasanton, said can and
trucks just began crashing Into
one another.
He said his car was fait by a
pickup that just kept going. I
pulled over a d another guy was
hit and. it N eked like he was
hurt, to I went over to see if he
was OK. Then another girl was in
her tear sitting in a bunch of giess
from her smashed windshield, so
I went over to her and got her
out of her ear.'
During the nearly two hour -
hour period, 32 people were tak.
en to - hospitals. said Ron Bal -
RESCUE: Local men save driver pinned in burning truck
CONTINUED from A4
involved In an accident Severed
vehicles were burning and man-
gled T .
Armstron¢ turned his attention
to a burning natbed pickup
where a man, who authorities W.
er Identified as Keith Depew of
Sacramento, was trapped and
yelling for help.
'I emptied my extinguisher in
about two seconds, trying to
keep the flames away from the
guy. It didn't do much.' he said.
Armstrong and Brockmire col-
lected extinguishers from other
motorists and rani back to the
trapped matt where a small band
of would-be rescuers had gath-
ered.
The Be*
Aw1r> coordinator of the San Joa-
to motorists. 'There were clti-
from the burning vehicle and tak-
quin County Office of Emergency
Services. At least 20 people were
zeros, truck drivers running up
en to San Joaquin General Hoa-
hospitalized
here with their little. dry-chemi-
pitaL where he was reported in
There were 15 accidents in the
at extinguishers,' be said.
critical condition.
Merced area Monday morning
'There was a flatbed gravel
Two of the people credited by
and all were fog related, the
truck that had evidently run into
the CHP with rescuing him was
Hlghway Patrol reported
the rear of another vehicle. The. _
treated for smoke inhalation at
Ralph Martinez of Hilmar. who
driver of the flatbed was halfway -
San Jeaquin General Hospital,
was driving the truck carrying
out the winde w, but from the_
, and released They were kienti-
swimming pool chemicals, was
waist down he was trapped in-
fled as Arnie Brockmire, a 27-
taken to a hospital with a head.
side the vehicle,' be said. -It was
year -ofd firefighter at* Lawrence
laceration and minorinjuries. His '
totally engulfed In !lames; and all
; Livermore National Laboratory,
truck was rear-ended by a larger
.these citizens were shooting
- and James Armscong Jr., a 31-
truck, the d4ver of which left the .
these fere extinguishers on him
.'year-old Lathrop resident.
scene, authorities said.
to try to keep him from burning'
Janet Robinson, a paramedic
- The man, who authorities iden-
with Mobile Life Support of
Bee staffwriters Diana Flores.
tined as Keith Depew, 28, of Sac-
'i:-acy, also suffered smoke inha-
Karyn Houston and Jim McClung
ramento. eventually was freed
lation during rescue efforts.
contributed to this report
RESCUE: Local men save driver pinned in burning truck
CONTINUED from A4
involved In an accident Severed
vehicles were burning and man-
gled T .
Armstron¢ turned his attention
to a burning natbed pickup
where a man, who authorities W.
er Identified as Keith Depew of
Sacramento, was trapped and
yelling for help.
'I emptied my extinguisher in
about two seconds, trying to
keep the flames away from the
guy. It didn't do much.' he said.
Armstrong and Brockmire col-
lected extinguishers from other
motorists and rani back to the
trapped matt where a small band
of would-be rescuers had gath-
ered.
more National Laboratory, ar-
'^Are kept spraying and hying
rived -
to pull him out. It got pretty hot
-People were yelling and
at ore point. He was starting to
screaming and lookingfor help.
scram, but we had to back
Several vehicles were on fire,'
away; Armstrong said.
Brockmire said When the extin-
The man's legs were pinned
guishers ran out, people began
under the crushed steering col-
throwing the- contents of soft
umn The flatted had rear-ended
drink cams, saline solution from
another vehicle.. . . .
the ambulances and other liquids
'Explosions were going on.
onto the flame; that were coring
Tires were blowing out from the
dangerously close to Depew.
fire. We didn't know whether the
gosh rescuers said that for a
gas tank was going M blow or
brief moment tluy thought about
not,' Armstmng said.
gising uD and backing away for
The accident scene was in cha-
their own safety. But they re -
os when Brockmh'e, who was on
rww.ed efforts to free the'man.
his way home from his job as a
'I had already made my ded-
firefighter at the LawrenceIver-
sio_n that t wasn't going to let this
than bum up in his truck.' Arm.
strong said. -
Finally they freed the man's
pinned legs with the help of two
crowbars someone had supplied
and sled him out of the truck cab.
'Py that time, it was totally en -
gulled in names,' Brockmire
said . They carried Depew to a
nearby ambulance. -When we
got him to the ambulance. James
an.: t high -rived each other, it felt
good: Brockmire said.
Both downplayed their heroics.
'As a firefighter, I've dedicated
my Life to helping people. So the
only acknowledgment t need !s
the self-grstTxation of knowing 1
did my job: Brockmire said
Foggiest
season's
uponus
From flee 90 reports
No end in sigh. That's
the dismal fog forecast
. IFog limiting visibility to
the end of your nose, be-
ginning at sunset and con-
tinuing through mid-after-
noon. is expected through
the end of the week
-And if K doesn't rain, It
could go on even longer,
said Richard Horton, fore-
caster for the weather ser-
vice's Sacramento office.
Fog is formed when three
phenomena work In con-
cert:
• Moisture in the air.
• Cold temperatures,
• little or no wind.
The more moisture, the
colder the air above and the
absence of _wind make the
weather the way it is right
now.
Chin up. Honton said. Af.
ternoon temperatures
should be gettkq warmer
and there could be a breeze
In the future — and those
could mean less fog
The forecast calls for
high temperatures near So
the next few days with lows
near treeziog .
And no rain is expected
for at least the next week
While the fog lingers,
schools work their burs and
class schedules on a day-
by-day basis. When.weath-
er conditions cause a delay
In school bus schedules.
many districts get the word
out via local radio stations
Parents who have children
who are bused to school
can tune in to radio reports
or call the transportation
departments of particular
school districts.
SOUTH SAN JOAOUIN
COUNTY: Manteca Unihod
School Diavict, 825-3215; Tracy
Nroae Sdmolk 631.6051; Amon
1M1dad Sdard fauna. 500-213l
MERCED COUNTY; RMto
atwon KYOS+tsl, 1460 ort d»
dray. 7zs.2191: tcuas-Fu, 96 3
on the dib. 5753068; and KAMii-
Fir. tots on the dot. M101&
STANMA S COUNTY: Con
tact food .lou a.Mro a mw
dauo CRY Sd cots bus rdonna-
0on._576404a.
CAUFORN14 He FAH: DA.
TROT• Rpt log ane Nor S1ock-
10re capons 931-4621.
David Hanover stands re'wjhe bumed'plckup Mick.that kil[ed.the driver he wa5•ttyingto resrue.ia j—day's mukipte accident
fog, speed
cause 19
accidents
sod CRARLES MCCARTHYS: `f. . • ^ +w r((
[i.• aLr: +.rens ir'.• �`' � \° ; •'t • .• -.: I At Mannirq Avonua j I
)�!'i A Ur r�rryi�g a rewend mll:S,on
SELAfA �- A 6-11,« ,4inet of denx tog end � (l man, an SL'1rLS 'J a':iC I i
w:ta:r 1-01 —1 t,1.—: fora xenes of ;.L -,I. two young ehddren � ,\tYg—g\1 rb DaeMx:>g up.
»torn tla,nwJ tee L+s of (rve people r 1"nga sj cashes ro`;�
ane!
to the ;.•"r �- — --'--
I rnrv, femrh of lour. i.j—d 30 olhrn Turwlay T tvek ct CKr tnxk c:Nuat AJC=
:ruxn,nK ..r. ! rr�•.. 5!+. ,
i'I -ki r� II K. Iran it ,. atn't rlte .—'—
tCr Near Flu"
•Y Falyd. P with Cai/mu H,FhAvenue
It »z d—g Cmer AAS the Gat_ ' ancthstr crxu!t _ !
n., ran 'n }rpt ,.,it 'ht Lhm eery xi•t�te , • tr, s- f,:� 111 OdCttd to me
U L_:
'[
un Utr S,• 4 :l'`x.•J' A fO�M CON)nr' O t- _1- �\ {SelM C_ .'I
iion. m. r,ne r.r •.K,r is cru• oP.—
;.p—w to « e Ir.lt trrvmtret pdtup that wmhed s \ •] x -a. S.rna --1 -r+�."}
at—I two m:irr. al.,n[( tM rv.r;.A.+ur.t Irefflc 4r,n - a. W ♦ tf w t 1hf, 1J JI CY.yS:On -f r t.
M n. er ._7anr�^.y, A, m,te arr5 Stam:: St—t. de .� a N t C• Tri -{.au ed ro^,n t t F�, t11
enMi n +a nZt1: n:•n•Eslru:es
of :'N'.
Heli I .rt I ndreC nrgcO Acro P: to
et I�
n.Th, I f - a.t mn1 from_ . _ r .... .,._- -�
(,c. plte t w a'lorts of a /;antefa rn an. Ah tour p00pla {n 1 i
ix.P I C (. actor t-1, r d thl. P'c+r p 5 drNer is M.dlt+t when the the r are urnrvl l
:.r. n�+-0 1 t , fr•,n• „1 Nim ». n nn n !Tont (jT.3 IanM of !PR car it, ignr.es. hoyer4
I ::K n ,,. a t rt
It 7_ r^.7 9 T� xi Y 7 c Lfi'{gSiF� 1 �
i.... }�.I..up. r:CYi L _-__--__._ __..._� .'.__._._ ��r_._�._�.____._ Fr••rr, >.nnArryeR•.Krnp j .i. .,. �, .
I _1 1
•
Wedresday
KUDWO
David Hanover stands re'wjhe bumed'plckup Mick.that kil[ed.the driver he wa5•ttyingto resrue.ia j—day's mukipte accident
fog, speed
cause 19
accidents
sod CRARLES MCCARTHYS: `f. . • ^ +w r((
[i.• aLr: +.rens ir'.• �`' � \° ; •'t • .• -.: I At Mannirq Avonua j I
)�!'i A Ur r�rryi�g a rewend mll:S,on
SELAfA �- A 6-11,« ,4inet of denx tog end � (l man, an SL'1rLS 'J a':iC I i
w:ta:r 1-01 —1 t,1.—: fora xenes of ;.L -,I. two young ehddren � ,\tYg—g\1 rb DaeMx:>g up.
»torn tla,nwJ tee L+s of (rve people r 1"nga sj cashes ro`;�
ane!
to the ;.•"r �- — --'--
I rnrv, femrh of lour. i.j—d 30 olhrn Turwlay T tvek ct CKr tnxk c:Nuat AJC=
:ruxn,nK ..r. ! rr�•.. 5!+. ,
i'I -ki r� II K. Iran it ,. atn't rlte .—'—
tCr Near Flu"
•Y Falyd. P with Cai/mu H,FhAvenue
It »z d—g Cmer AAS the Gat_ ' ancthstr crxu!t _ !
n., ran 'n }rpt ,.,it 'ht Lhm eery xi•t�te , • tr, s- f,:� 111 OdCttd to me
U L_:
'[
un Utr S,• 4 :l'`x.•J' A fO�M CON)nr' O t- _1- �\ {SelM C_ .'I
iion. m. r,ne r.r •.K,r is cru• oP.—
;.p—w to « e Ir.lt trrvmtret pdtup that wmhed s \ •] x -a. S.rna --1 -r+�."}
at—I two m:irr. al.,n[( tM rv.r;.A.+ur.t Irefflc 4r,n - a. W ♦ tf w t 1hf, 1J JI CY.yS:On -f r t.
M n. er ._7anr�^.y, A, m,te arr5 Stam:: St—t. de .� a N t C• Tri -{.au ed ro^,n t t F�, t11
enMi n +a nZt1: n:•n•Eslru:es
of :'N'.
Heli I .rt I ndreC nrgcO Acro P: to
et I�
n.Th, I f - a.t mn1 from_ . _ r .... .,._- -�
(,c. plte t w a'lorts of a /;antefa rn an. Ah tour p00pla {n 1 i
ix.P I C (. actor t-1, r d thl. P'c+r p 5 drNer is M.dlt+t when the the r are urnrvl l
:.r. n�+-0 1 t , fr•,n• „1 Nim ». n nn n !Tont (jT.3 IanM of !PR car it, ignr.es. hoyer4
I ::K n ,,. a t rt
It 7_ r^.7 9 T� xi Y 7 c Lfi'{gSiF� 1 �
i.... }�.I..up. r:CYi L _-__--__._ __..._� .'.__._._ ��r_._�._�.____._ Fr••rr, >.nnArryeR•.Krnp j .i. .,. �, .
I _1 1
Wednesday, Ja w,,j 24, 1990 THE FRESNO BEE e
If you must drive
in the fog..:
Add 15 mintnes to
drive time.
' �Tum on your
taeadfights.
Slow down in
dense fog-
gUse defrostersto
�j keep windshields
dear.
LJq Do not stop it
the road for
any reasm
If you [mist stop,
drive as far onto
- " the shoulder as
possible.
q- lt._tt
u you stall.
get auk and
walk
al k a safe
distance from
.. _ the car.
Deputy coroner Keith Stubbft, center wearing brig coat, s gmises as workers move a body frorn the vrrecitage.. `Fnwuw e.a
Pileup�
„`�'.� P,ptaf 1131
rS.•arr
med Yore Papa At
The vrcpnts, ancordini; to Investp-
•fi
y,
ptors, Krt butted beyond recng-
ads
%
butnkng•' said Dare Hanover .1
Jllantea '[Tent's no way i mid
Johram said northbound tnftie
t
Nave goner him out. He told tr d ...
lana of the freeway wit cktaed
-
:Let me out rm tolling air.•-
down at 832 a.m and were not.•
F Hattori said be emptiedbetween
Sb( diad inght FIR esrfrtguishers over
uAn.til.,sltortly bdore once.�i
� dufnlg � amdetd waS
K'i •
lire man belore >x was ertguUed ht
less [tun SO tett atamdirtg ro N-
•
.
Jiar+ta
CHP. ..
•Only in Vietnam warfare. luno-
Investigators said it would be ser-
aai days before ail of the reports
%3%
-
-
ver said. had he seen wont.
arc completed and reviewed, but
•- `I shot him with the (caul fire
that it appears that the that me,,
eztingtu;her and 6 war too lata'
Hatt wen said -The whole cab was
pori pt7elttn wu trig�ertd by a rear-
i. Manning
• f
'
mgllVed-
end cola near Awnue
about 7:10 a.m. -'
A spokesman for the Fresno
As motorists approached the first
Cotmty CoroMis Office identified
accident. can and tacks begin
the drier of the pickup as Mike
running into each other, rewhing in
:fAs}ord 28, of Clmii Also killed
a second mWpvehice aaideMnear
•+ire four members or a Fresno
Floral Awrom and MV Other pik-
I
'fkmily. Javier VJlantal. 22; has sue-
ups near the Second Street :
.friend. Aro-IA& Guzmut, 2i- -
ramp. where the five viaims were
:,oars daughter. Perta Gunman. 2
killed
..
.)tears: and {Nara Villanral. S months.
-the couple's son.
-rh r, ere vehicle -of all sial,• -
-tnckiding
C f.p offiMV Lalltt@ �Of1n50n, leR
-
gaifte5 frlfotrtration as Rudy Flores helps atxiderit vit�ms.
said Johnson, a couple of •
.
- •""'r'''
.. - - -. e • r• -....: ;.
Investigators said Hosford, an
. e.plovee for janitorial Service
big rip tfat jackknifed'
•. Dan L •rich, a s kesman for i
Lr.4h said rn appecmd W have
delfts and were assisted M Sejmne 'd all fust fuypened so fast' Ar-
c :npany, had left Visalia shortN at•
American Attdxikroeo said [tut 22
suffered major inpules The rest, he
said: appta o have minor b,
Foboe officcm Fresno County aw- ;, pun De fa Cruz said, mar -am [tear
Irf'a d eaey Fre Dir Lefts
thank kup,God -
ter 7 ►ru after finishing a job them.
apparenAy was en route to
of the b e injured td
Pr'OPt Ju regal.
transportation to hospitals The ps-
moderate tri' - ' ....: .
. do work
and Se, eFi
trta and Selma Foe ik t do work. t thank God we'ce aEve f
I e'm
-...p .
;pd
Fmsro when he was fnvotwd in the .
[lents were taken to Selma District
L mid, iI unbatlartcrs, nitre.
Lynch
from Fremo and two, from 5•am;,
CTe'a'i -: •:. -.;:tet/ !
t - Ti . r"ts• •-'ITat'a pro the wor.2 Itie
='y
aaid,. st about 8:15 tin; l
jm=dguons said it has not been
Hospitel, Yalley Medical Center.:
Fresrn Community llospiul and St •
Im' usesl'n ::es;.; :.-;J.: . t . , a •
every
Arterio and Mary Ile L,Crtr;'afr seen it.' tow truck driller Joseph C.
Farea,vfae were driving ro Fr}saa Gertia of Selma said M the chain-
•'Ym'Y
detem•Jned wbere the Fresno farm-
ly had been drmng frwu. Mit that
Agnes Medial Center.
Of the 22 people bospitalUed.
: Janson said available CHP
-I— — dispatched to tM aCd-
wt+ert they became involved in one . reaction accident had them
of t!* Pik p& Neither was hurt all or, and down the trecway.'
rrlaay PUL U1 tUP uuy . a It aniner pressure m
Business, A-8 �'r.. _ — Sports, A-9
Dec -15,1989
}
an eca etin.
VOL 131-1410. 342 - - - 531 E. Yosemae (P_0. Box 912), Manteca, CA 95936 25 CENTS,,:
Fig causes rash of accidents
7 crashes
keep emergency
workers busy
TAY SARGUIS
The Bulletin
The California 1Gghway Patrol is
warning motorists to use extreme
tamion on area roadways following
a rash of tog -related ace -dents
Thursday morinl.
Emergency personnel responded
to seven eairmoming accidents in
the Mamma amp. including five that
occurred on Intersme 5 between
Lathrop Road and Highway 580 in a
half-hour period. Nate of the acci-
dents caused injuries that required
hospitalization
The Gest accident ocomod at 7:20
sun. on 1-5 south of the San Joaquin
River, when a whine -paneled dcliv-
ery van rear-ended a flatbed tractor -
trailer carrying logs The van was
probably traveling tyro rapidly in the
dense fog, aecading to the CHP.
The collision caused the van to
Gip over, spilling a load of mustard
on the highway. while the Mailer also
spilled its logs. Traffic was forced to
mow on the right shoulder of the
highway until the blockage was
cleared sat 10 am.
Ronald Casey. 37, of Roseville.
the driver of the lumber t-w4was
,,ken to Tracy Commuttfry Maruor-
ial Heepitaa. wtwx M wai%Geattd
See FOC. Page A-16
----SUE tOXM-N Basan
A motorist carrying flares dashes across the road at the 1-51205 Interchange wherea series of accidfnts occurred early Thursday.
School bus drivers have option for foggy days
RONALD SHINKMAN
The Bulletin
Parents worried that their children may be
transported in school buses during fog condi-
tions that are hazardous for driving acrd no.
rML The Man= Unified School District
maintains a strut policy regarding its buses
and the fog.
According to Roy Yost, MUSD's uwsper-
atien director, he and ether supervisor; will
inspect various bus routes early on foggy
mornings. if they feel the fog is too thick, Use
buses will not run until visibility improves
-We're always net -ours with Qac: fog: You
Fog
From Page A-1
and released. Gonzalo GowAIcS. al, of Stockton, the
driver of the van, also did not require he ,itaiization.
.'•foment; after the initial collision, a sent ":k— and
trailer also southbound on 1-5 swerved a avoid traffic
that had slowed to a stop approaimawly 300 yards to the
north of the fust aeridenL Ill^_ semi sidesa•i.^ed a blue
Dodge pickup, which in turn hit a Mazda, according to
CHP.
.The -driver -of the semi, fosrph nehringdt:-5::e(
• Shingle Spring;, was uninjured in the accidenL The
pick-up drvcr,Thadious Snell, 62, of Lo -ii. -_s taker, to
Dec:ors Hospital of Manteca, where he was traced and
I re!eased---------_.--..
Said. "We'll shut all service down until. we feel
that it's safe for the buss to be au there-"
Additionally, all of ML'SD's bus driv.,rs
have the option of not vcmuaing out into the
fog — whether their supervisor has given an
OK for driving or not— if they feet it is unsafe
for them to drive.
-Believe me. no one is being forced out into
the fog.- said Sharon lvfcndes, president of the
klanteea chapter of the CaUromia Slate
Employees Association and a bus driver her.
set I. -It's all up to the drivers. No tote else is
making the choice for them. -
Them have been six delays in bus departures
Ch? rcponcd at least two other mirror•injury acci-
dents on 1
•5. one at the intersection of L.tthrop Road, and
the cthcr at the intersection of Louise Avenue, during the
half-hour span of accidents..
Approximately one hour later, emergency personnel .
:espoaded to two more minor -injury accidents, one tar
tat" car Road cast of the Wester Pacific Railroad
tracks. and the other on Louise Avenue west of Airport
Nay.
Ci•? `.treiSed that drivers in dense fog thoeld reduce
their s;ecd and use their low -bout or regular headlights. ,
Drives should be sure their defroster and windshield i
wip•rrs are in good -working: order. . .....
-- When approaching an intersection, drivers may want
tor_:: dawn :heir windows to listen .`or cars that may be
a;grcachicg. Icy brfiees are also a hazard is the coli
mnr..ios weather.
this school year, according to MUSD Trans-
portation Office figures That number is slight-
ly higher than usual, said YosL
-The fog seems to be wax than usual for
this time of year. we'll just have to deal with
iL"
Students arriving late to school on Lie buses
are not penalized in any way, and are allowed
to make up all examinations and other work
that may have been missed, said Phil Gustaf-
son, MUSD's assistant superintendent of eau•
catimal services.
"We give the students that are held u;r an
excused tardy," Gusuf> m said. -We under-
stand why they're late. -
Above all, CNP recommends that drivers who can
avoid driving in foggy conditions do so.
The Manteca Police Department also recommends
that early -morning drivers reduce their spccd, use their
headlights and look out for school children using
crosswalks
The !,Llnteca Unified School District sends out
-scouts" to check road conditions before scenting its
school buses out in the morning. Bus drivers a!so have
the option to not dive if the conditions seem tna
harardous-
California law requires that drivers mduc_ steeds in
hazardous conditions or risk citaticn.
.. - -:^^'- <, .. •r- , ••. - _ _ ...
INSIDE: Freeze. in South to push produc 'ices up—B•3. tvlore theft likely as A use increases -8-3
The' _:. :. Section B
Bioddo' ne'Almanac B-2
Rford ' - ��� Business B-3
TAssdey, 7Jeeeun0ar ze, s989-
LOCI:
•�- 'i:..lir., - �'txi.t -h. '• �t
_ -r_acY�.accidets
- .'� :ri✓.. -t t{.x:r.r•--..t .7t...,t._r.T- .. rz:?}+- .. _ it i"'s•. _. ,..:... ...; a.... - .
:Fog;icy "roadways
s -4contribute- to ..._
dash .of crashes.
By Gene Turner
The Stockton Record
A 23 -year-old Tracy roan was killed
and 10 people injured as fog and icy
'roadways contributed to 15 accidents
:Wedwsday. morning in the Tracy area.
-The dead man has not been identified.
�-� pending notification of his relatives:
_ •.�;.�",�> �. ;� f''Flie most serious accident occurred
' u'i%; ? .^. • shortly after 5:20 a.m. at the on-ramp to
+.
F Interstate 205 from West 11th Street, a
hall mile west of Tracy, said Officer Ken
1-.
•9 ' � `", `_~;a � � .Milligan of the California Highway Pa-
`trol'sTracyof lice.
A car driven by the 23 -year-old man
swerved off the ramp to avoid another
° vehicle. He and his passenger. Jose G.
Garcia, 20, of Tracy, were not hurt in that
-_ "accident, but as they were walking down
s the ramp.tltey were struck by a car driv .
.;en by Terry Ann Tuckwood, 23, of Tracy,
-.that went out of control on the icy pave-
'x- Garda';;" treated and -released from
�T
.ricy Community Memorial Hospital;
..and the other man was pronounced dead
at the hospital .... .
w :r ' Another icy accident at 6A5 a.m. at
'_interstates 205 and 5 caused no serious
*, injuries but involved six cars and a jack-
kni[ed tractor -trailer rig, blocking
eastbound traffic on 1-205 for two hours.
r• -,t --•;v. ,�.:... - Aeoadpwagaonooro Also Wednesday morning, an
eastbound car driven by Ronnie Gene
OVERTURNED::A tractor -trailer truck-over'tuirted•near the coruiectkV ramv of Interstates 5 and 205 Wednesday rrtarning. Roeszler, 18, of Stockton, went off 1-205
The driver wasn't' inured seriously. The acddeM was tate of several ice and fog rebated wrecks near.Ttacy. , See TRACY. 0-z
TRACY ice apparently was ug a i actor
in that accident, although Milligant was
_ _foggy at the location. M
Continued Iran a-tsaid.
..at Tom Paine Slough and downan The other eight people in -
embankment. volved in accidents were not se-
Roeszler was reported in se• riously hurt. Milligan said.
rious condition Wednesday at. In all. 22 can and nvo big rigs
ternoon in San Joaquin General were involved in 15 different acci-
,HospiW. where he was taken for dents handled by the CH? in the
treatment of internal injuries. Tracy area.
_
INSIDEEvents to honor Martin Lather King Jr.—B-2 :.. Many workers exercise little choice in jobs—t 3
'Smdon B;
fl : Almanac 8,2
<s.apU aLOCA
Business
.2arac�accidents 1:fat�li
og ossible i. wyw"�
�it:Ji£1f.,'t3Y.a : k ,i.!'3. :: �:: - _ : t k .il • :.;• . ��.:i. ; � . �GZ ; F� i!}f � i
pro bly '" - v`''• ` :' "5,a
By Lisa �� bawilt drop 2 to.4 inches oCs
+sof ,•:
The S�octctoa Record . " opm in the. mountu"V but travelers a +i
dense -fog that Dlankcted San Joa- advised to call'fihead.tor.'conditions,and
f County;Thu. moining;may: r.. ^�•
P ghave a factor:in;at'least^22 tiati
_ _ �- _ ' is to carry
_r -'M.r :.'fit - 4 ` Serrlciiie^.wings mav:reaeh"10 to'20
Fl-
5ce e6wco4 of Stodcton ignores McLeW Gke199?h'
s � .
But•the log t[ia 'has hamF
l+rashed awaymaay and over: the_week;t ` could dry to 45 degrees* : i
'The reeea4 fqg had resulted:lh,siow-';:_..I
..reiid;as torecastin predict a bette;;thaa:,':.
50'percent chance of twin, saidi"Doriald 'down slin.'ajr;trafflc..At Stockton•Metic l.r
Makerofthe riadc;n.9Weather Se ice1i�:..politari.Atrport.;an
early-morning;[)SA1rf:: {
Ztr}�tte fctIm iiirThucaday's ktatter'asti=
' flight was -delayed for•about- fEve houisr'•:- <
Wednesday: according to Daq McGhee ra;I ;
1 rvaas Eitilla,,Santana Soca: 34 ottl:?di1,
y.. Sosawas westbound on state Hjghway,l2
watch supervisoi;in;:the- alrport.:Wwar•;
} : in-Lodf'abaitC6:40'a m. when stie.fa,led• .
There were sfmilarproblem ,.Thursday ,,- i
morning
tolstop'for ajb4--rig that was rnaking:a
`y _hsnd.turn ,onto'Tecklenberg: Road• _
• ' Although therewere no'restrtctions on +;=.
?;-;
said Calitomie 'Highway Patrol Ottleer i
;.4TerryStrange .�..;F.`--,s�s+�.x;
smaller. planes.. the:n�og�Piobably pre
vented many of them;trom'enteringthe.��..
`rsc, Sosa_ was killed-instaatty::;the ttnck
airport as well. McGhee saidfi ; ,1
traffic, accorcut$-- =
k< <, 29otrSacra-::�
E :driver; Edward Spearman _ ,r Rain w[Il imp'rove�air. .
mento, was not injured ` :; . ' =' : ". - - to McGhee.. For !tying, he,sald; �6ain s : • %
t ,
pipected'to' arrive today ,better than fog r ,e.. fir}', fg 't
The storm t
MEDIAN: Barrier
prevents collision
CONTINUED from B-1
Modesto Bee
San Joaquin/Tuolumne Edition Thursday, March 1. t9M
Bion B-2
�.
B-4
s .:'
.
melt
sines � B-5
.
Section
tnedian barrier was Installed, the CHP
Median credited with saving., 1imvd's':"
said After Wednesdays episode, —of-
HPort
Adals lauded the 0XVIMU tigls successful
By DIANE FLORES But the scene could have been far The trouble :tatted about 7,40 a.m. bo rio..r.'
efforts to improve one bYpass-
' 8aa rbc- waw worse if the barrier hadn't been them to when a tractor4railer broke down in the The truck knocked out a portion of the
Tuesday night, three people were In.
MANTECA — The median barrier on stop the out•ottomro' big -rig from land-. westbound lane of the (ug•wvered. by- concrete barrier before rolling over on its
juaed one wiously, durfeg a aingte vett
the Highway 120 bypass may love kept a ing in the path of eastbound tnffte, said pass west of Airport Way. Ten trdamtes side. The driver. Bruce Msdoskl, 33, of
ice rolbvt» ■t the inteesec�on o[ South
ser ioos accident Wednesday morning CHP Officer Roger Townlin. later, another big rig jackknifed behind Ripon, suffered serious injuries and w/�'`'-
Main Street and the bypass Aocotdittg to
Tram becoming a deadly one, wthorides 'The bypass had considerable mom- the dWDlad ttucK causing traffic to slow taken to Doctors Hospital of Manteca.\,y,,,_,
'
the CHP. Steven Sdnieider, 42, of la-
said. '. mute traffic- The barrier may have saved to a crawl hospital spokesman listed him in stable= .
i A truck driver was seriously injured in some lives there; TownBn said Low visibility on the bypass due to fog condition Wednesday ahernocmZ -
Nrop, was driking a 1974 Chevrolet pick.
the &.20 aaa. incident that was caused by The California Department or Trmtw also was a problem u nes continued to
j a combination of log. speed and a few portsdon Installed the barrier at a cost S2 approach the sone at high rates of . Flying debris from the do=n barrier
up with two on southbound
Main Stmt aloof 10 P.M. when he tried
disabled tractor -trailers, aorordidg ro the million fotloiwing a ampat�rt DY ■grass- speed. Townlin said. Then, about &2o struck some eastbound vehicles, but no
i California Highway Poirot. The accident roots wmmittee of local d= and orrt- a.m., a tractor-tniler tnveting about 6o once was injured. Townlin said. The over ,
to tum onto the westbound bypass on -
j =marred when the truck driver swerved cials who demanded safety improve- mph, swerved to the left to avoid hitting turned truck faced authorities to dose
t to avoid skmming Into backed -up trafft meets on the 6N -mile, two -lone stretch the backed -up traffic. the westbound tans of the bypass cur �0.
camp.
M the westbound lane of the bypass. the linking Interstate 3 and Highway 99. h 'He was coming up too fart In the fog.•
CHP said. wascompleted in October. Townlin mid. *He lost'comrol and hit the _ _ See Pape B•2. MEDIAN
MEDIAN: Barrier
prevents collision
CONTINUED from B-1
minutes. Traffic was demuied at AirportSchneider,
who the CHP said was drhl
Ing at a high tela of speed, cost control.
WThe bypass opened in 1960. Sitxe tbeq
went off the tooth side oI the tut -ramp
there haw been, 22 ,In on the route,
and rolled over seven! times across a
-
medim The truck on
most of those due to head-0rtgross
collisions
There have beo fatalities since the
been It
BoN paumge ebaj M fn
wen .
tnedian barrier was Installed, the CHP
the vehicle. Srhnek4r and Mantel Mih-'
er, 33. of lot". were taken to San
said After Wednesdays episode, —of-
HPort
Adals lauded the 0XVIMU tigls successful
Joaquin County General Hospital. The
efforts to improve one bYpass-
vehide+s third omrpent an unidentified
women was treated at the scene snot
Tuesday night, three people were In.
juaed one wiously, durfeg a aingte vett
Healed.
Hospitalotfieials Fisted Miiltx in aitinl
ice rolbvt» ■t the inteesec�on o[ South
condition late Wednesday. Schneider,
Main Street and the bypass Aocotdittg to
who was treated for moderate Injuries,
the CHP. Steven Sdnieider, 42, of la-
hesbeen arrested on suspicion of drunk-
Nrop, was driking a 1974 Chevrolet pick.
andriving and was expected to be
up with two on southbound
Main Stmt aloof 10 P.M. when he tried
charged with felonry dronkm driving, the
to tum onto the westbound bypass on -
CHP said
camp.
-- < tj ,��y��
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ti, l .. i :. � � 'k w `' 3. l.. � � M+M� �`:w"'s' fC� t 'tY b V +t �j
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S 7 - ` F � -.Y S 4 i t... t .K7 �: i / f`v� clime .0s'C'"'Slt+act�iY.L 'Tsdi
� S i ti 5 3 � „� f ti6b ; � i�„�Y" ^s � ��'� �,'� .'Fj`t��Yy
� . fyf a�.r < � a � _F� i .. P a: r ^,� .... �`a ��*r' 3 s
Z � ar -.c . � ' c aaC ,� '3x i � nr3$�rp�
.., s $ = -. x �, F of 5��� s r^ .,
""F s L� r t �, i a�
.. �t�.
- ,� � '��t3 vr%C
F ri! � !� � i �� � � ' o+ Sys � ali r�d ytr�
s: - t ��, ,� :� +r } e� �
fi ..�,�'�'��� .ii vii' ;1� -t',+ � .� M
_ �
e" • + t
�• ��S.lr �.��q s ''�} r�.3i4 ;,��5��'� ��� rc?'�'•'y",,. � �,s �a 5: Er � .: }.
`''�„� �e�..�:�'�5,��'�s,'"� � ����'' �:,� �1.�,tj�e rsz�+`;: ':�-s ,� r[t F ` '� �' �r
�.,,. �.: `' r�'dasa �`e, i _ _ z�:,I'? .� E ._ , ..,, : T��k�iw^, r� ...as_. s r��-a.,F��' ^z. .. �. .. � . _ ,. _;.:�� ......>l �..3
r�«�� �"�
it.,.. ,.<.,
r � r--� �.
,,, z � _
eco a vice r
Vo 10/, Number 131 ..; Y' ; _c Tulue, California Thursday, MaY 2<, t990 25 ants — 32 pages
.. .� ., ... a•...- .a
(( is
._ y. smoth:e'red
r
uone
r. . -
�,� ;_. �� > �-,,��: �- _. •-f, �� �•�: _� :Two -dozen cars, � trucks collide;
`� 1::=� • . rescuers sure_ wised toil not worse
I' _ .:i -_ •+;,. Bre .• 'yi" �``s�w:iRi1as:si�
e •k '"t "- •::.• tkljdalsareamandnWaolyrea �MOre inside'
was ►iia tees , ae.► ma - ':-' :'^�,.s+�.
. �'"`• '� storm ,loot Fras.a7 f9 Nat aeWA_ Fin opals recalls sca».'
of 7LIaR cot Hs433tF
1 __ `�•�. . t s... - ._ _._y risAe'•t to o eaa1n5d- : S
=red am dueeesaV�ftpfmwstawsrd'x7iOMdliahtti. rAs
douiwlnpDt.lasGsa
` r'x•,:-
..
"We vee real] a..prtaed when r.71•ires�a.Y ..c.,,: i'.'L'
we td everyti t puled apart acrd .
there Bras i� lbs ane driest ad& Rbsa s tet rd asht Nd a
Idaw saw liC>l06 Cticl livy you esdd hear was nnkbs as dN
Marshall. 'Ji1taR Geati F4m er aamethint weld dray so mad h
Department "We were tntdd The tad. Thea we beard emamb
• - ' - - •• . • . • •set` AAprwmhyTlai,„s
Talars county Wafthler Sheldon Copeland sits on watch tow an and ag4hq lu l troea the �wreck on Railway 99 Ylednesda
Local-:hospitalsY�� �� � W��=•:..: ' �~
:inundated_`w�tf
`acciderit.viciimsY
e.
+'c.sawsea-nwe.�•aexamitne"7
Iomee Imide tical iwspi:a} emergency remit for me&.'-
—
:•; Lad�efmatb. Otabb,>Z per
ol /versed k-&4 eittlmt of Wedrwdays deadly
jr
The acddmt stretched bot ar
•
• frafarat d in}eies ravau( from-bdanry
r�
critical to minor alern,e 3 pm ae
•'iCi tiwotk sal fir. lid K ten etre well,^ Wel
+•ddmL tine sere aNdOed std nw
_Rr'OM
ematenc.r roma d flies come
Da SchdQ d Tdr. Dfserkt ibrpbd abed rhe eeap
'. y-�
A a "tal Of l3 elm
UM of the emtrgenq stall Is asci a-larte-acale
,•Yri :,}: `
bleeding victim to anther -h-
hi4
• Aba ntlrld with his hvpftara topawe was TM
. }
'dtfitsettkd.
Jraree. patient tan manager for net h D.M. Mold
3a
fog to remewe the InJved em
IlaaplW lo yloaba. .. • ,
srwlW.ateide:
couid.t aa'.tNag bot
"W0 fslbwd W dads pias. sad x ward end.
{
Mans- the acodml7 ami talab
.: me. who was a /avenger be a Me
— was kM" when his Nick w
dt loom Barth Carobru that w"
Mira nw tab bw Hees .enbatanees came tom the
•'- aha a atop bdao plewbt lots Ise
pkkap and des w" destrsrad
tSWafda f6ttrway tstrel at shod 7:n pm.'tre �
the vme plss0. ba two Ue.a
- }ed oma w .ad N.rtd awfrik�g
MeaWlaW7 It was a bad ane.' end Sehulq Tulare
mound and looked bks . Mg loon
sefra yaads b tht n+p soar
District's lariat ors sen is( mw(a. ..• •
thaws dear sod =Herd a
. - : It _went es hat as it case.^ she
HOW" 9.19 sptm( lav sedan Ttie sealable am- •
'-;
.c
WINK" radod is the die. Sdra}s said, prwddiog
•
emcrteew.T Aid to the bpRd and rtiay4rt wad Wed a
the twapital as what to expect
"We Www ens had aWasimetdr 17 patlmts, Nd we
.. •
dafesm6ud ee level d servbe from There.^ sehalR
�—r—�.
e•
The wren[ seemed No the hospital mal encs than(-
I shins. SiWeld am "Id he over those PH* hely
t
•�. ` . 1 . `
t
^PK
� �*
orberwakaajnst Wednukq llw4 ,Wirt
.,'/....: t `t.
�r•r
..y� +
�ef.'.t.
Once me "dents darted artAb(lo
be tathey were
x g�
r•=t'j•. £-
,
brought Is a ••map Nit•. where sus" reavened
3
,
��
their cadNon. Areas were sat up wlWa the cam erpa
o recant ft -If tar treelmad of a." with mayor a'.
. ✓
t •'t
,�y
adoerloluries,Sdy4ft s" - - • -
Iraioby, no hospital had bmlited Its new diaster
ana3week earlla. .' J -'• •• .. ....
'pdy
• ,.y("
r•
V
y�
•si i►'.
••lits was Our first ""ru tT to ad it we WuNk
'and
�•
we fele l tame .l very well." Seb., "ld.,-
."Deome of the triate. br*b.( people WO it b wad
nloneeir anuthty. We didn't have prdee b waltWr( b
The Iwpital sent at send eriticeny falursd petrosa
a ltsweah Deft,, which Is the ,-ante a nitrated
L., --,reeler.
After mcd+Wg a cab tram Tian Dbmiet Jaarc .
said be Called in extra damn, saw and ruppat datt
,.
atresl fin pan lec lad -°. '' =-• •. e
tett with Int lo es. - `Y•
Thebosplid'a`�i` a }''•':J:ffYi:i•::.,re.is.��tl n.:i;�i:ii�':al(?ty1lY.atAROhaea bffbOn,tirse.49V.
prasirtJty hem the ,-eideat Craw anE
.:'- _
Dea�L
Tlare ibrict gave d b er.,gh dme to ND, - A mountain of v..'wodran fret 76year-bid Randy Tonsil from fit pkkupe
mebalu, "W Juarez. "That este Ib -inures b tram-; truck,
smashed and perched slop the Cu that carded Michael Callahan, who
pod lieu (ave ussbttb extra tirubprepert." was kltied in tT»erash -. _•
•. fbat'saltbae was^
anti pa.pfa raft — I vwu the
:•; Lad�efmatb. Otabb,>Z per
weretwrint "Asir "M_
p4 teen liken b stn haapgals tr
The acddmt stretched bot ar
•
• frafarat d in}eies ravau( from-bdanry
pabca and les dopa:
critical to minor alern,e 3 pm ae
reser to thew Pmts Ned M
+•ddmL tine sere aNdOed std nw
_Rr'OM
ematenc.r roma d flies come
_�eeAteieased alter tRamtent
baspit u. FascStory medic
A a "tal Of l3 elm
techaida.. aesrried from W
pid..p I I ud bit dp Corbin
bleeding victim to anther -h-
hi4
ipthe nertbbmd taxes 1 0 the
fire depaRmenL n.:ae cru.
'dtfitsettkd.
.olid with 0, •yaws d bre" m
Ore wihfess described the tree•
fog to remewe the InJved em
,�dyQloway:
srwlW.ateide:
couid.t aa'.tNag bot
Midud fsbah&% 7s, d le
. bake btMs•^ aafd Debaab tibker
Mans- the acodml7 ami talab
.: me. who was a /avenger be a Me
— was kM" when his Nick w
dt loom Barth Carobru that w"
crashed between two big dts.
•'- aha a atop bdao plewbt lots Ise
pkkap and des w" destrsrad
' tar 4,=
amthcr big ri, ^TM ds.t
the vme plss0. ba two Ue.a
- }ed oma w .ad N.rtd awfrik�g
pasw,tecs crintaN f-laet
mound and looked bks . Mg loon
sefra yaads b tht n+p soar
seduld.deadev�
thaws dear sod =Herd a
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A-15 Thursday, December 21, 19,%�o The Modesto Bee
ENLIM
Editorials
SANDERS H. l..aMONT, executive editor
The Modesto Bee MARK S. VASCHE, managing editor
W. L McSWA{N JR., editor of editorial pages
Published by McClatchy Newspapers JUDY SLY, associate editor
since 1927 DICK LeGRAND, metro editor
Vol. 112. No. 355 I JOHN W. WARD, general manager
Crashe'S in the fog
O"Owhe instant horror of an accident in
the fog was conveyed in Bee report-
er Stuart Gordon's account of a fatal
pile-up on the Manteca bypass, quoting a
truck driver, James Armstrong Jr. of La-
throp:
"I looked up in my rear-view minor and
all of a sudden I saw a bunch of cars
coming out of the fog. They just slammed
on their brakes and started running into
each other and the cars in front of them,"
he said.
"There were cars between me and them.
I heard this pretty big explosion and saw a
big ball of fire through the fog about 100
yards back."
The story went on to relate how Ander-
son and Arnie Brockmeyer, a driver from
Sonora, and others bravely went to work,
trying to rescue people "when all hell
broke Ioose at 8 a.m...."
The very next day, more terror• in the
fog occurred near Stockton when a south-
bound Amtrak train collided with a big
truck hauling syrup from the Hershey
plant at Oakdale. Three were killed — the
engineer and the fireman on the train, and
the driver of the truck. At least 24 passen-
gers were hurt seriously and another 31
were hurt badly enough to require medi-
cal checks.
Fog must have been a factor. Apparently
the driver did not see the train at all.
,00&M 0 G"h;b?i- R.
The fog is deceptive. When you set out
from home it may not seem too thick, you
think. A few blocks later, it's so dense you
can hardly see. Lights loom up or, you.
The windshield clouds and ices.
For thousands of drivers, on a freeway
or fast road, too many drivers are going
too fast, taking chances.
Collisions are inevitable. It's a wonder
more people aren't killed or injured.
What's a driver to do?
All the defensive driving skills in the
world may not save you if someone hits
you. Slow driving can make you feel ex-
posed to the impulses of impatient drivers
to get around you.
It makes you appreciate mass transit.
In spite of the Amtrak wreck, you know
a train is much safer than driving. Even a
bus would be safer. If more people car-
pooled, there would be fewer cars.
SOME OF THESE MORNINGS of worst
fog, it may be prudent to just say no, to
cancel the trip.
Schools cancel bus trips. Airports shut
down.
It's hard advice to someone getting
ready to go to work, maybe not even prac-
tical.
But the image of "all hell breaking
loose" in thick fog could be enough to
keep some drivers safe at home.
P' ?
-The
Wdes o Bee' .e .-Tuesday; December 26;1989 A-I 5
Lette*rs'
fogbound *highways
The FAA decides when the'-airport is - =
'sale to operate: T ie *Department *of .-Hiigli- =
ways determines when it's safe to travel: = =
L : snowbound highways. They also control j
the 'committer lanes- and -the'-bus lanes. r:
why don't'they control-fogbound high=
- ways? How* rnany 'more must be. killed
before something is done?
:AL TRZNADEL-'Modesto -.
t mr- MAN t tUA bULLL t IN- t ULSUAY, DECEMBER 26, 1989 �
letters
Rallying for signs to reduce speed
Editor. Bulletin
Monday morning was the second time in two years
that I have been in the middle of a multi -vehicle accident
in the fog in which a Manteca resident was killed a
hundred yards behind me. There is no excuse for zllow-
ing this carnage to continue.
Monday morning I was in commute traffic moving
into the merge point from Highway 120 at the "Mayhem
Mile" of I-5 doing a reasonable speed for the fog condi-
tions (30 mph) when the group of vehicles I was leading
came to a safe stop at the traffic jam on I-5. Barely. I kept
my eye on my rear view mirror just in case and was horri-
fied to hear a collision and see a car climb over another
car two cars behind me, and watch the gas tank on the
front vehicle explode. A gas tank explosion is not like
what you see on TV. It's an evil looking vertical snaking
orange and black twisting flash with a life of its own.
Because of the accidents ahead emergency vehicles were
already on the scene. Even so, I pulled off on the shoul-
der a ways followed by the lady immediately behind me
since the roadway was so dangerous, and then we got out
to help.
Four lanes to our left, traffic began to slam into the
stopped vehicles on I-5: a U -Haul truck pulling a trailer,
a big rig, lots of other cars, small cars ricocheting
between the bigger ones as the drivers attempted to
thread the -lots between the obstructions while they were
skidding. There were 10 or I I of those squealing brakes
impacts in the few minutes we watched helplessly.
SscreceeeF-EEEEBANG! The fog was so wet the road
was slick, and there was no way to stop in time if the
speed exceeded 30 mph. I didn't see the fatal collision
and I don't know which of the many crashes it was, but it
was very close.
I was in the middle of a similar situation on 120 on
Dec. 14 last year, again at a maximum safe speed of 30
mph and barely had time to swerve around the flatbed
truck containing the man who was killed there moments
later by a van.a half dozen vehicles behind me. The fast
lane stopped a dozen vehicles further, both lanes blocked
by a multiple -vehicle accident that had spun across the
center line a hundred yards beyond that.
This carnage is preventable.
We alt know people shouldn't drive too fast for such
conditions. If you cannot stop within the distance you
can sec. you are in trouble. If you are relying on the tail-
lights of the guy ahead of you Iike so many people did on
I-5 Monday morning, when he runs smack into the
obstruction in front of him you are NOT going to be able
to stop in time. And neither is the guy behind you who
was doing just what you were doing. I was rather sur-
prised to read CHP Officer Ken Milligan's comment in
Tuesday's Bulletin that "visibility was about 100 feet,
which means that a vehicle moving faster than 30 mph
would not be able to stop in time." I guess that means
I've finally learned. I've heard the instructions to slow
down. I've heard them for years. Yet it has taken 28 years
of driving and some very frightening first-hand lessons
(and some recent nightmares) to -learn what that maxi-
mum safe speed is. It is.unreasonable to expect drivers
who have not experienced this sort of tragedy to auto-
matically grasp the dry lesson in a classroom or the Vehi-
cle Code Summary. To get them to slow down, the state
should tell them what speed to drive, out there, on the
road, where it counts.
Caltrans has the technology available to it now to
reduce this carnage. They are already using it: message
boards on the Bay Bridge and adjacent to Los Angeles
freeways, message boards and changeable speed limit
signs on Interstate 80 overponner Summit, and so on. Is
there any reason Caltrans thinks fog is less dangerous
than snow? For Iess than the state is going to spend on
fixing the Nimitz Freeway, Caltrans could place Iocally
programmable high-intensity• variable speed limit signs
adjacent to.the freeways throughout the San Joauqin
Valley, and give CHP local option to reduce the posted
speed as local conditions dictate. And at occasional loca-
tions they could add larger message boards programm-
able to display such messages as: "Danger! 30 mph
Speed Limit" or "Accident Ahead, 30 mph Max" or "I-5
Closed, Accident, 30 mph Max," and so on. The technoI-
ogy exists now to centrally coordinate such message
boards, and eventually to adjust the posted speed auto-
matically based on electronically measured speeds, con-
gestion, and especially visibility.
And the Legislature could back this up with legisla-
tion making it a felony to tun into anybody in the fog
when exceeding one of these reduced speed limits. After
all, driving blind is no less hazardous than driving drunk.
If such a system were started now, even a simple sys-
tem, we could reduce this.carnage within a few years.
Doesn't fog kill more freeway users every year in the
Valley than the earthquake killed in Oakland? Isn't it
time to do something about it? .
Caltrans and the 120 Connector Improvements Steer-
ing Committee did a wonderful job on the 120 barrier. Is
there a way the committee could get together and get
behind solving this deadly fog problem? Can we get
together on this, all of us?
Michael J. Barkley ��, U, - &, p, 3
= - The set'"*)a
Enterprise
and -
�14e Seha 3vulgafor
t`tt�
Member
uuraxxu als""M
roausa,tas r<S9=7 ott
ROY BROCK, Editor and Publisher f SUE ADAMS, Credit Manager
JAMES A BROCK. Assistant Publisher B GERALD LATHAM, Advertising Director
J. RANDALL W ARLAND, Executive Editor Z KIM PICKRELL, Production Superintendent
• Wednesday,91 N Volume14No.
'...`. L ��t`. -%i. f';: �.��i��ti�L%,.✓ :� �� Yi � .=:.J. � tom.:: Y� _5'1 ,t _ - :�:
Highw.ay accident deaths--
are.caused
-by-speed, dog
THE COMMUNITIES of �
Selma, Kingsburg and Fowler
should be in a period of mourning
over the deaths of fire traffic vic-
tims on Freeway 99 last Tuesday.
The chain of accidents in the south
county involving mord than SO cars was
not the fault of citizens of these commu-
nities, but the deaths were unnecessary
and they .all could have been prevented
—= if only drivers would slow down in
the thick fog.
Many of the officials and others who
were investigating the accident and as-
sisting the injured, expressed, sadly, the
same observation_ they were driving too.
fast! Several of the officers said the same.
thing: drivers were passing the scene of
the accidents driving at least 60 miles an
hour, in spite of lighted flares in the
hands of officers, tow trucks, ambu-
lances and other emergency vehicles.
What causes individuals to do that
when they cannot see more than 100
feet because of the fog and when they
could not stop in that distance because
of the wct pavement?
The lives of five people were snuffed
out in one chain -related accident las!
Tuesday morning. One man was burned
alive when his pickup truck was crushed
so badly he couldn't get out. The gas
tanks on the vehicles ruptured, creating
the rapidly spreading blaze. Four per-
sons in one family perished, and the
wreckage was piled so thick fire trucks
could not get through to extinguish the
blaze. Ambulances were delayed, so
thick was the carnage and wreckage.
And it all was so unnecessary if drivers
would slow down when driving in the
fog.
The California Highway Patrol has
preached the message of slowing down
countless times. Fog in the valley is not
new. It has always been here and it has
always been dangerous. What is new is
the prevalence of tragic highway acci-
dents such as we have had on the free-
way this winter. The only thing that has
changed is that traffic is much heavier
and the freeways are conducive to fast
driving. That is what we must change if
we are to stop the highway carnage.
Drivers must be convinced that their
lives depend on sensible driving. Just be-
cause a highway is three lanes wide in
each direction doesn't mean that it is
safe to drive so fast that the car cannot
be stopped quickly. Until drivers all real-
ize that, no number of highway p,-trol-
men can make the highways safe.
And you may be the next victim.
PAGE A-10 THE MANTECA BULLETIN -WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1990
fetters
Time to do something. about fog driving
Editor. Bulletin
On Dec. 26,1989 you published a letter from me call-
ing for public cooperation in reducing the hazard of driv-
ing in fog on freeways in this vicinity. The response has
not exactly been overwhelming. Even so,1 have submit-
ted the foIIowing suggestions to Assemblyman
Johnston:
The California Basic Speed Law is not working dur-
ing these fog conditions. When you slow below 40 mph
you are as vulnerable to collision from the rear as you are
to running into stopped traffic in front+ It is not safe to
violate that law AND it is not safe to comply with it. The
state needs to tell drivers what speed to drive out there on
the road where it counts. Anyone believing the Basic
Speed Law is working has not been through one of then:
incidents. Ninety percent of the drivers I see in such fog
conditions are passing me, and I am usually driving too
fast-
propose
astpropose a three -phased sign system the help reduce
these speeds:
-1. As with the. "Daylight Test Section" signs, unlit
signs stating "Fog Test Section-- lvfaxium Safe Spced is
Farthest Visible Sign," followed bya series of speed Jim -
it signs (20, 30, 40, 50) placed beyond the first sign at
intervals corresponding to stopping distances. Although
less effective than the other phases, this is cheap, and
could be done quickly on freeways now, and other routes
later. If that isn't cheap enough, the fust sign could be
made the same size as the other four, and simply sny
"Fog Test," and then enlist the media to spread the word.
In face, it probably wouldn't be necessary to make more
than one set in five with the larger sign as tong as once in
awhile the larger sign appeared in a sequence so motor-
ists would understand what the smaller signs ri,cant.
2. High-intensity lit remotely -programmable variable
speed liarit signs on which the posted limit could be.
reduced at the option of the local. CHP with an infrared
device like you use to change your TV charuicis, and
later on a command from a CHP central dispatch center.
The Legisiature should supplement this by making it a
felony to run into anybody at spuds exceeding such
posted reduced -speeds. After all, it's as dangerous as
driving drink, or firing point black into a crowd «viii
your eyes closed. Allowing CHP and Caltrans to use
radar, one of the most effective speed me.^,itorincy
devices in the fog, would also help save lives.
3. Large messa;c boards like the ones Calt.ans has
ins,alled in Los Angeles to warn or traffic prob!cros
ahead, again centrally programrnable, with messhgcs
11c 1-5 closed at Nlossdale --- slow to 20 mph" or some
such. The spreading Network of pavement sensor,
should be ued in, and a system to detect visibility'prob-
lems (lasers acid rcflcc,nis?) should be des:t;ned and
installed.
All of this involved off-the-shelf technology, most of
which Caltrans is already using elsewhere.
Since then (Dec. 1989)1 have heard some other ideas:
1. Require big rigs (that is, tractors, trailers, and con-
tainer chassis) be equipped with ABS brakes to prevent
jack-knifing. A tricker friend pointed out that a retrofit
would be too expensive, but suggested that it be imposed
for all new equipment built or sold after some selected
date — he would welcome that change. In 10 years, the
jack-knifed truck problem could disappear.
2. In Europe, fog lights include a high-intensity red
light mounted int he rear. One high -mileage sa:esman I
spoke with begged his Mercedes dealer to install' one on
his car after he was in the middle of one of these fog -
related scrapes on Highway 4 east of. Stockton while
waiting fora train to pass. He was told state law prop bis
such a safety feature.
3. On certain turnpikes back east, overhead signs are
sesnor- or radar -controlled so that when you exceed the
speed limit they light up with your speed and tell you to
slow down to the posted speed. Tied in with locally set
limits suggested in Phase II above, this could be very
effective.
4. On certain highways in Michigatn where a fob
hazard has been identified, and on certain similar free-
way exit ramps south of Portland, Ore., heat -emitting
lights have been set into the pavement, which raise the
temperature of the air above the roadway creating a "tun-
nel of visibility" for the traffic. This seems rather expen-
sive for most long stretchPz, but might help for the 1-5
tilossdaie Bridge.
5. One person I spoke with mentioned that lately it
seems to her that after Caltrans repaves, when they
restripe the pavement they are not restoring the
3 -2 -1 -bre: k -exit system of notifying motorists that dice
are appreaching a freeway exit: f est three plastic reflec-
tors, then 2, them 1, then a break in the fog line, then an
exit. If Caltrans has•given up this important warning sys-
tern, Caltrans should be encouraged to resume iL
As with the signs aftcrFhase 1, most of these concepts
would require Iegislative intervention. So far Asscmbly-
man Johnston has not acknowledged that there. is nay
need to improve safety on the freeways around here dW'-
ing die fob- If you feel differently, you might tear this ic:-
ter out of the paper and write "ME TOO!" across the bot -
ton,., or wTite your own letter, and send it to Assctnbly-
ni= Patrick Johnston, 11 E. Channel Street Rr;,- 306,
St: c --ton Ca. 95202. Perhaps he is just waisting to find out
whether or not you cure. Maybe together we c2n mr-
sundc him that this public safety gap deserves his
,,%UCntlorh,
llichncl J. llarkle} t ✓
c Z.
1 ,
C
river
•knew' `iz� ' advance the "headline
would read "Valley fog k,ilis
'Ii3is -headline :s -only partly: true.
_.s -
The Ytrue zespoasibility: Iles : with
those drivers: who _violate -the Nd. I_,
rule. of driving -=- do not. drive faster,
thp -is safe for. conditions_
a ::.::drive to Fres"no every
passed' by same drivers and
ted:by dthers who,.W- r re ob i-
,� ous y irritated : by nom• `reduced
: x ✓ 3'
f r .. - •.' •� y. :. -fes =+,i_ • . j.-' t:
Re 6nfl I experieni :ed the most
`:.
_ frightening . event of my=.•.life.. I-: was.
involved in the chain=reaction acci =.
dent : on 99. I manageda sto m `�.
r .p' Y=a
: car and get it • off the res way. oth-
,
ex driver did mot have-tirne to stop.
As a result five 'eole 'died;. numer-
ous others.were. injured; and.a lot of:.
sheet. metal was perit.��-Z -
'•• .•
Valleys �dnvers�� should -leant f frons
r'' #his.:: I# 4 not _business as.,usual.
When it: is �foggy, they should slow -f
.down. _. hen '14sibility is:: ' u'
and -the roadway'.wet, and they can-
,��Y' not:see what is ha' pening..ahead of N
m; '
thethey shout react. and stop
r' their -vehicle inz a .safe distance from
"normal" highway;
I - ray that no one.else dies need-.
Tess y, is Ynjur. . -or ,experiences
such a frightening event. _�; ; ,3, f�. 6
Letters to the Editor May 26, 1990
Tulare Advance-Registe„""�
P. 0. Box 30
Tulare, CA 93275-0030
Dear Mr. Ellis:
The tragic pileup in the dust storm Wednesday didn't have to happen
for at least two reasons. We've heard a lot about the well-publicized
reason, people need to slow down. But the other reason is that the State
has the technology NOW to warn motorists that such specific conditions are
immediately ahead and the State isn't using this technology to save lives in
the Central Valley like it should be.
We are a small group of people from the various Central Valley Fog
Belt cities who are working towards improving traffic control systems on the
freeways to cut down on this carnage in the fog (or in blowing dust). Our
organizing efforts started with a letter you published in early February
listing specific sign systems similar to those the State already has
elsewhere. The goal of such systems is to: 1) advise the motorist of the
maximum safe speed for conditions, out there, in the fog (or dust), where it
counts, 2) warn of obstructions ahead and warn when speeds exceed the safe
speed, and 3) enforce compliance with such warnings.
We have not gotten very far with the State since they say they do not
have the money to install in the Central Valley to save lives the types of
systems they are installing in the Bay Area and Los Angeles to reduce
congestion. Convenience on the Coast is more important than lives in the
Valley. On the other hand, after the Green Bay, Wisconsin, pileup on March
12, an idea emerged which could deliver the message to motorists quicker
than the sign systems. While costing the State nothing, it could generate
State Sales Tax revenue and help cut down the slaughter until the State gets
moving with the rest of the program.
Once the first collision occurs in impaired visibility, the fastest
way to warn the next victim so that they won't add to the pileup may be
Citizens' Band Radio. As the enclosed letter shows, we've requested the
President of Radio Shack to petition the Federal Communications Commission
to designate a CB channel as a "traffic advisory” channel like the current
emergency Channel 9, but less restrictive. With the dozens of eyes and ears
all around you on the highway at any given moment, with this sort of Channel
driving in fog or blowing dust would no longer mean being cut off from
knowledge about hazards ahead. Not everyone would need a radio - just watch
the truckers. But eventually anyone doing a lot of driving will want one.
After Wednesday's accident we phoned Radio Shack's Texas offices to
find out their position. They are very supportive but state that since 1980
the FCC won't listen to manufacturers, and instead suggested we approach
REACT International for help. We will be doing this, but either way, we
will move ahead with a petition to the FCC. We invite your readers to join
us (Mike Barkley, 261 N. Sheridan Ave. #1, Manteca, CA 95336, 209/823-4817
or Bryan Whitworth in Tulare, 688-9369) in this effort and in lobbying the
State for these traffic systems. This is an election year, and that's a
good time to remind Sacramento and Washington that we have a lot of votes in
the Central Valley. And while you're at it, send your legislators a copy of
this letter with "ME TOO!" written across it. Thank you.
Bryan Whitworth Michael J. Barkley
,
516 So. Spruce ����' �='t �1 �'� 161 N. Sheridan Ave.
Tulare, CA 93274 Manteca, CA 95336
Micha J. Barkley
161 h Sheridan Ave. it
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
December 18, 1989
Assemblyman Patrick Johnston
31 East Channel, Rm. 306
Stockton, CA 95202
Dear Assemblyman Johnston:
This morning I was in commute traffic moving onto I-5 from Hwy. 120
doing a reasonable speed for the fog conditions (30 mph) when the group of
vehicles I was in came to a safe stop at the traffic jam on I=S. Barely. I
kept my eye on my rear view mirror just in case and was horrified to hear a
collision and see a car climb over another car two cars behind me, and watch
the gas tank on the front vehicle explode. Because of the accidents ahead
emergency vehicles were already on the scene. Even so, I pulled off on the
shoulder a ways followed by the lady immediately behind me since the roadway
was so dangerous, and then we got out to help.
Four lanes to our left, traffic continued to slam into the stopped
vehicles on I-5: a U -Haul truck pulling a trailer, a big rig, lots of other
cars, small cars ricocheting between the bigger ones as the drivers
attempted to thread the slots between the obstructions while they were
skidding. There were 10 or 11 of those impacts in the few minutes we
watched helplessly. The fog was so dense the road was slick, and there was
no way to stop in time if the speed exceeded 30 mph. I understand that in
one of the crashes up on the bridge there was a fatality, burned beyond
recognition. I was in the middle of a similar situation on 120 on December
14 last year, and drove around the flat bed truck containing the man who was
killed there moments later.
This carnage is preventable.
We all know people shouldn't drive too fast for such conditions. Yet
how do you get them to slow down if they know the idiot behind them could
smash into them at twice their speed. The safe drivers need help. There is
an easy answer.
For less than the state is spending to fix the Nimitz Freeway, the
state could place electronic message boards adjacent to these freeways
throughout the San Joaquin Valley, and give CHP local option to reduce the
posted speed as local conditions dictate: "DANGER!! 30 MPH SPEED LIMIT" or
"ACCIDENT AHEAD, 30 MPH MAX" or "I-5 CLOSED, ACCIDENT, 30 MPH MAX", and so
on. The technology exists now to centrally coordinate such message boards,
and eventually to adjust the posted speed automatically based on
electronically measured speeds, congestion, and visibility, but at least if
such a system were started now, this carnage could be reduced within a few
years. I suspect fog kills more freeway users every year than the
earthquake killed. Isn't it time to do something about it?
Please see what you can do. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
January 8, 1990
Assemblyman Patrick Johnston
31 East Channel, Rm. 306
Stockton, CA 95202
Dear Assemblyman Johnston:
Thank you for your letter of January 4, 1990.
Enclosed is a sort of phasing I had in mind for fog speed warning
signs. While Phase I would be super cheap, it probably would be far less
effective than the other two phases. Would you ask CalTrans if they could
experiment with something like this?
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Barkley
�
Xhtii�� s G--2, Q'l
FFJ
CI STATE CAPITOL
P.O. BOX 9426L9
SACRAMENTO, CA 942490001
$16 4457931
0 31 E. CHANNEL STREET
RM. 306
STOCKTON, CA 95202
9" 9+.47479
AssevaWLI
&H-fornia ��egislttture
PATRICK JOHNSTON
ASSEMBLYMAN, TWENTYSIXTH DISTRICT
REPRESENTING SAN JOAOUIN COUNTY
January 4, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
CHAIRMAN:
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEES -
EDUCATION
GOVERNMENTAL EFFIf ENCY AND
CONSUMER PROTECTION
JUDICIARY
Thank you for your December 18, 1989 letter regarding
placing "electronic message boards" adjacent to selected
freeways to reduce accidents because of fog conditions.
My Field Representative Carol Hemminger contacted Kate
Riley, Consultant, Assembly Transportation Committee, on my
behalf. According to Ms. Riley, there is no pending
legislation that would provide for the installation of
message boards such as you advocate. She added that
"budgetary restraints" would be the main stumbling block
to such a project.
I recently wrote a letter to Robert K. Best, Director,
California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), regarding
your suggestion to install electronic message boards along
freeways in the fog -prone Central Valley. I enclosed a copy
of your letter and asked Mr. Best to respond directly to you,
with a copy to me.
I appreciate your taking the time to write to me. If I
can be of assistance in the future, please feel free to call.
PJ: lc
e -6G 'S 1" t --C- 3
ict
STATE OF GUFORNIA-6USINESS, TRANSPORT) ; AND HOUSING AGENCY GEORGE DRlKME-1AN, Ga. e
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR
I M N STREET
P.O. BOX 942873
SACRAMENTO, CA 94273-"l
(916) 445-8045
(TDD) 445-5945
January 31, 1990
Mr. Michael Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Avenue, sl
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
Assemblyman Patrick Johnston has asked..,the Department of
Transportation to respond to your letter of December 18, 1989
suggesting possible aids to motorists to reduce the risk of
driving during dense fog.
During the early 1970's, District 10, Caltrans, headquartered in
Stockton, conducted tests with fog detection equipment and
electronic changeable message signs. Unfortunately, the
equipment tested failed to perform satisfactorily.
In addition to equipment failure, the study pointed out two major
weaknesses to this concept and we believe they have not been
resolved to date.
The first was the inconsistent nature of fog; it was impossible
to predict with any accuracy where the fog would be from day to
day. One could be driving along and suddenly find himself in a
fog bank with absolutely no warning.
The second dr:nback was the reluctance of the average motorist to
slow down before they actually entered the fog. We discovered
that if the message "FOG 1/4 MILE AHEAD" was to be provided,
very few drivers would slow down.
We appreciate your interest and thoughts on this subject.
If you would like to discuss this subject further, you may wish
to contact Mr. Jack C. Derry, District 'Traffic Engineer in
Stockton, at (209) 948-7878.
Sincerely,
WARREN D: EBER
Assistant Director
Legislative Affairs
cc: The Honorable Patrick Johnston
Member of the Assembly
Mlche J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave.
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
February 5, 1990
Mr. Warren D. Weber
Assistant Director
Legislative Affairs
Department of Transportation
Office of the Director
P. 0. Box 942873
Sacramento, CA 94273-0001
Dear Mr. Weber:
:1
Thank you for your letter of January 31, 1990. I would fixe to know
more information about your District 10 fog sign tests. I have doubts as to
it being a valid excuse for doing nothing for two reasons:
1) You tested systems 20 years ago: technology has advanced since
then, you are using a lot of such new technology on the Bay Bridge or Donner
Pass, and other states are using it in fog situations now.
2) If your test was as you say, with a sign that says "FOG 1/4 MILE
AHEAD", then someone has missed the point. I already know there is fog 1/4
mile ahead. The message I want to see is "35 MPH FOG AHEAD" or "25 MPH FOG
AHEAD", or "TRAFFIC STOPPED 1/4 MILE AHEAD". Sure, motorists are going to
ignore a vague warning like the one tested. And I realize that fog is
patchy. But what we'vc: got now is CalTrans and CHP aware of how bad it is
in these patches, without warning the rest of us.
Accordingly, if District 10 can still put their hands on the file, I
hereby request under the California Public Records Act a complete copy of
that testing file, for which I have enclosed ar, advance of $100.00 pursuant
to California Government Code Section 6257. Please keep in mind the 10 day
limit for a response in Section 6256.
Thank you.
7 Sincerely
Michael J. Bark?z�-
i
Micha,. J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. ;1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
February 5, 1990
Mr. Warren D. Weber
Assistant Director
Legislative Affairs
Department of Transportation
Office of the Director
P. O. Box 942873
Sacramento, CA 94273-0001
Dear Mr. Weber:
I received your rather incredible letter informing me that there is
nothing CalTrans can do to cut down on the carnage in the fog on the
freeways.
I supposed I should have expected that. CalTrans is already standing
by while the combined municipalities and county governments of San Joaquin
and Stanislaus Counties are making plans to dump 90,000 more commute
vehicles into each I-580 rush hour over the Altamont - no mitigations, no
nothing. Good job, guys!
Now I'm supposed to sit back and accept your statement that you can
do nothing to reduce the tendency of me and my 4.5 million Central Valley
neighbors to turn ourselves into barbecued hamburger in the fog on the
highways you design and operate? Don't you think it's rather strange that
CHP doesn't accept your fatalistic attitude? When there is an accident in
the fog the men and women of CHP risk their lives out there to put out
flares going back for miles some times. And flares don't even tell us what
the problem is unless we've been through it a few times. If CHP can come up
with flares, don't you think you could come up with something better than
"Que sera?" I want two things: 1) Warning of what the maximum safe speed
is for conditions, and 2) Warning that I am about to die in a few seconds,
thank you very much. You do it for the Bay Bridge, you do it for the Sierra
passes, you do it for head-on collisions where you can see for miles, now do
it for us.
Or so help me God I will buy me a fleet of hearses and hold a parade
in Sacramento every time there is one of these pileups.
Technology is changing. Other states are doing what you say you
can't. Enclosed are some more ideas. Surely you can find a pony in there
somewhere. I would like to cooperate with you, and build you as much public
support as you need to get decent controls budgeted, but I am not: about to
go to my death out there without Navin tried. And I'm not going to sit,
idly by and watch my neighbors slaughtere .
Sincerely,
l Michael�J. Barkley``
STATE OF U , TRANSFORTA' RAt:J HWSING AG04CY
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR
1120 N STREET
P.O. bOX 942873
SACRAMENTO, CA 94273-0001
(916) 445-8045
February 7, 1990
Mr. Michael Barkley
151 N. Sheridan Avenue, #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
I am returning your check for $100. I have asked Jack Perry in
Stockton to provide you with a copy of the study conducted in
District 10 during the 1970's.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
qa4ULC(4-L
WARREN D. WEBER
Assistant Director
Legislative Affairs
Enclosure
cc: Jack Perry
-4
a^.
Iles
Q CAPITOL
P.O. BO% 9428+9
P.O. BOX
11 Iii �/►" �
SACRAMENTO. CA 9,2+9000,
.U.1` �'�'� it
Ole) 445 -Mi
C 31 E. CHANNELS.REE, PATRICK JOHNSTON
oCKTON. CA ss2c2 ASSEMBLYMAN, T,7VENTY-SIXTH DISTRICT
QM S4&7479 REPRESENTING SAN JOAOUIN COUNTY
February 8, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley;
CHAIRMAN'
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEES:
EDUCATION
GOVERNMENTAL EFFICIENCY AND
CONSUMER PROTECTION
JUOICIARV
I received your "draft" letter to the editor, Manteca
Bulletin, regarding installation of traffic control devices,
incr 1 d g electronic message boards, along sections of
Interstate 5 to reduce accidents during fog conditions.
In your letter you say "So far, Assemblyman Johnston has
not acknowledged that there is any need to improve safety on
the freeways around here during the fog."
From the day Caltrans finished construction of the
Highway 120 Bypass in 1980, I was concerned about the safety
of driving on that roadway, particularly during foggy
weather. I continually pressed Caltrans to construct a
safety barrier on the 120 Bypass to prevent deaths and
injuries from accidents caused by foggy conditions and/or the
passing lane design of the road. It took several deaths and
an outpouring of community support before serious attention
was paid to constructing a concrete safety divider. Today,
when you drive over the 120 Bypass you are protected by a
$2.3 million safety barrier, built not solely because of my
efforts, but also because of the organized and persistent
support from the community of Manteca.
I take your suggestions for fog control measures on
Interstate 5 seriously. In my January 4, 1990 letter to you
I indicated I wrote to Robert K. Best, Director, Caltrans
regarding your suggestions. Subsequently, my staff forwarded
the additional information you provided on this issue to
Mr. Best. I received a letter from Mr. Best January 16, 1990
saying he has asked Warren Weber, Assistant Director for
Legislative Affairs, Caltrans, to look into this matter and
to respond directly to you. As you know, I requested that
a copy of Mr. Bests' response be sent to me.
P3: lcc
Sincerely
ssembWman, 26th District
�'/ k. , im t- C.- 5, r, z
Micha-1 J. Barkley
161 N Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
February 8, 1990
Assemblyman Patrick Johnston
31 East Channel, Rm. 306
Stockton, CA 95202
Dear Assemblyman Johnston:
Thank you for your letter of February 8. Wow, the mails must be fast
these days!
I regret misinterpreting your letter of January 4. In the past when
I received letters saying a legislator would check with so-and-so they've
usually been followed two or three months later by a letter saying so-and-so
said they're sorry, nothing can be done. While I might accept that in
regards to FEMA refusing to accept flood plain information on Manteca
(Cranston), the Federal Highway Administration saying there's nothing they
can do to prevent the appropriation by three Stockton developers of 100% of
the capacity of Federally -funded I-205 (Shumway), or the California
Department of Real Estate saying there's nothing they can do about Winchell
Construction selling through Silva Real Estate hundreds of homes Winchell
knew had a flooding problem that was not disclosed (Johnston, 11/17/88 et
seq.), I am not going to accept a kiss -off on this fog safety issue.
I am well aware of your support for safety measures on SR 120. I
still have all your letters you sent me on that issue in my Pat Johnston
file. I alsoappreciate the median barrier very much. Robert Travers of
Manteca died a hundred yards behind me in the fog on that highway on
December 14, 1988. We were all backed up behind a multiple -vehicle accident
that had spun across all three lanes between Daniels' Estate and the Airport
Way exit, although accidents further on had backed the traffic up to that
accident point. The barrier eliminates most such spinouts, although it
probably would not have saved Mr. Travers. The barrier also seems to affect
the fog: when the wind is light, the barrier itself seems to hold in the
traffic heat opening up a sort of tunnel effect along the lanes with much
better visibility than on the ramps.
On the other hand, while you were sending me those letters you
ignored three others (need for specific drug control legislation, need for
freeway impact mitigation fees, inquiry on state policy on agricultural land
conversion, need for a state -level environmental appeals board). What am I
to think? I did receive your Christmas card, thank you. Did you send one
of your cards to the Degler .family of 1294 Sprague in Manteca? Mr. Degler
was the December 18, 1989 fatality.
A copy of the letter I actually sent to the Bulletin is enclosed.
Although they have withheld only 2 or 3 of the 20 to 30 letters I have sent
them over the past two years, they have not published this one, so if you
would like it revised please let me know what wording you would like me to
use. In the meantime, you know CalTrans isn't going to do anything unless
somebody lights a fire under them or someone with your clout helps them make
a decision. flow about some help?
Sincerely,
Michael J. Barkley
- MichrJ`J. Barkley
161 h. Sheridan Ave. al
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
February 14, 1990
Mr. Warren D. Weber
Assistant Director
Legislative Affairs
Department of Transportation
Office of the Director
F. 0. Box 942873
Sacramento, CA 94273-0001
Dear Mr. Weber:
Thank you for sending me copies of the reports on the testing
CalTrans performed 18 years ago on fog monitoring equipment linked to
changeable message boards. As I wandered through them, some points stuck
out:
There wasn't much fog that year:
[Bemis, Technical Report Standard Title Pagel "Due to atypical
meteorology, there was insufficient dense fog for adequate testing."
[Bemis, p. 31 "Data from Operation Fog -Bound Statistics (2)
indicated:
Fog Season 68/69 69/70 70/71 71/72
Fog Hours 171 235 217 1,036
Fog hours are defined as all hours in which visibility was restricted due tc
fog at any location within the area. The winter season (1972/73) we picked
for research of fog detectors had only 163 fog hours."
The signs were not adequate:
[Juergens, p. 41 "The sign chosen was not sufficiently large to be
adequately visible in adverse weather. . Although the sign seems large at
close range, it does not stand out from its surroundings in either foggy or
clear weather."
(Juergens, P. 61 "The illimunation of the sign was not proper for
right time or fog conditions. ... During periods of heavy fog, however, the
sign was still difficult to observe."
[Bemis, p. 61 "We had neither the lead time nor the money to providt
a sign bridge over the roadway (this is what we should have provided)."
[Bemis, o. 121 "The location and size of the signs were not
effective enough to catch the drivers' eye."
Standards for visibility weren't fully developed:
[Juergens, p. 21 "Tae lack of dense fog precluded the analysis of a
statistical relationship between the estimated visibility and the parameter.
measured by the automatic fog sensors. ... It was not determined how well
E,ke�,"b,'-1 C_/ 01 PC f
Mr. Warren D. Weber February 14, 1940
p. 2
visibilities measured by the various instruments were related to
visibilities on the highway."
[Juergens, p. 101 "The lack of dense fog at the test site kept us
from obtaining data with which to generate the statistical relationships.
It is felt that this relationship :rust be obtained before proceeding with
the planning, design, or operation of a fog-hazard warning system."
Some of the instrumentation was inadequately tested:
[Juergens, p. 12, regarding Meteorology Research, Inc., Fog
Visiometer] "It was not possible to obtain observations of highway
visibility while the Fog Visiometer was installed due to a lack of dense fog
at the test site."
[Juergens, p. 15, regarding Kahl Scientific, Videograph] "However,
the short duration of field exposure (1 month) was not sufficient to
demonstrate the instrument's durability."
[Juergens, p. 15, regarding AeroVironment, Inc., Highway Fog Monitor]
"The instrument was observed to be flashing at the slow rate when the
visibility was low (around 250 feet). When notified of this problem, the
supplier removed the instrument For servicing and did not return the
instrument to the test site. Since this was a prototype instrument, the
supplier was not able to replace it with another instrument."
Some obvious potential components were not tested at all:
[Juergens, p. 161 "It does not seem feasible at this time to warn
the motorist of stopped vehicles (via loop detectors or radar for example)."
Why not?
The messages were too vague:
[Bemis, p. 9, relevant messages from] "Figure 8, Arrangement of
Console with messages available": ... "Dense Fog Ahead", "Dense Fog 2
Miles", "Dense Fog 4 Miles", "Slow Wreck Ahead", "Slow Wreck 2 Miles", "Slot:
Wreck 4 Miles".
[Bemis, p. 101 "If an accident occurred during the period of dense
fog, the sign message would alternate 'DENSE FOG AHEAD' - SLOW! „!BECK
AHEAD'".
With most California drivers these days acting like "slow" means 55
mph in a 55 mph zone, this really needs to be expressly stated as maximum
speeds in miles per hour, such as 50, .40, 30, 20, etc.
Just reading the reports gave me the feeling that the tests were both
overdone and shorted at the same time: there was some sort of hurried push
to "test something", the test included some fairly elaborate equipment for
the day, essential components of the test were shorted like the raessage
boards themselvf�s or the messaces used on them, test circumstances were not
really adequate to give it a fair opportunity since that year had less fog
than any of the previous five and there is no reporting of how dense the foc_
actually was, and so on. It was not scientifically rigorous.
Mr! Warren D. Weber - _ February 14, 1990
p. 3
Has any of this research been updated since then?
I would very much like to see the concepts dredged out of the files,
the technology updated, the testing phased to examine alternatives in
increasing order of testing cost and complexity, the messages furnished
motorists sufficiently precise to enable them to know what the maximum speed
should be in miles per hour, the test continued long enough to get an
adequate measure of both performance and public response under the right
conditions, and a more rigorous production of test data and public response
be sought. Is this possible? Is there a way CalTrans could fit further
tests within its safety budget?
I was quite impressed by the copy of Mr. Walsh's letter .that you sent
me showing how the 3 -2 -1 -break -exit marking system evolved to help CHP
officers locate the exits without risking rear -end collisions, and how the
commercial trucking industry picked up on that and praised it. Perhaps a
passive system like I suggested (five signs: "FOG TEST", "20", 1430", "40",
"50" at distances coinciding with stopping distances) might meet a similar
level of appreciation. Would you have any idea how much such a test might
cost? Perhaps I could contribute a bit towards the first one? Since their
ads show that they are very proud of their reflective sign coatings (as the
should be), perhaps 3M would consider sponsoring such a test?
In any event, I would like copies of certain documents mentioned in
the reports you sent me:
[Juergens, p. 18:1
Beaton, et al., Stockton Fog Dispersal Study, California Division of
Highways, Report No. CA-HWY-MR 657107-1-72-24.
Tamburri, T.N., Theobald, D.J., et al., Reduced Visibility (Fog) Study,
California Division of Highways, Headquarters Traffic Department, March
1967 [also see Juergens, p. 31.
Wynn, C.W., Captain, "Operation Fogbound - Accident Reduction Plan",
California Highway Patrol, Stockton Area, October, 1972.
...and perhaps you could suggest how I might obtain:
National Cooperation Highway Research Report 95, Highway Foq, Highway
Research Board, 1970.
I would also like to obtain:
(Bemis, p. 1:1
"Several studies have been conducted in California to prevent the multiple
vehicle accidents associated with driving in fog." Where would I find
these?
fp. 3 & p. 13:1
Information Bulletin [on Operation FogBound] by California Highwa, Patrol
dated July 1972.
(p. 4:1
"The fog detector's ,are discussed in Part 2 of the report 'Detectors for
Mr. Warren D. Weber
p. 4
February 14, 1990
~ Automatic Fog -Warning Signs' by Bemis, Pinkerman, Shirley, and Skog, July
1973 (CA -DOT -TL -7121-1-73-22)." Apparently what you sent me was Part 1.
[p. 13:1
"For more information on types of changeable message signs, please refer to
Special Report 129 by the Highway Research Board on 'The Changeable Message
Concept of Traffic Control'. This Special Report contains papaers presented
at a conference held on July 1971 on the design, operation, and use of
changeable message signs." This is obviously so far out of date as to be
irrelevant since anybody with a hundred dollars can walk into Costco and buy
a programmable message board these days, but I would appreciate leads on
that and more current changeable message board research.
Please let me know how much all these copies would cost.
Please let me know how I might help get this research back on track.
Thank you.
Reports received:
Sin erely
3-4 �
Michae J. Barkle
V
W. R. Juergens, Detectors for Automatic Fog -Warning Signs, Part 1, Final
Report, California Division of Highways Research Report
CA -DOT -TR -1115-1-73-02, November 1973 [Juergens]
Walsh, Kenneth, "Memorandum to Mr. R. J. Datel", referencing file
06 -Operation Fogbound, December 15, 1972 (Walsh)
Bemis, G.R., et al., Detectors for Automatic F_oq-Warning Signs - Interim
Report, Transportation Laboratory Research Report CA -DOT -TL -7121-1-73-22,
California Department of Transportation Traffic Branch, Sacramento, July
1973 [Bemis)
STATE Or CAUFORMA—BUSINESS, TRANSPORT! AND HOUSING AGENCY GEORGE DEURMVU.K C va w
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
1120 N STREET
SACRAMENTO, CA 95614
TDD (9:6) 3217685 0
(916) 445-4121
(TDO) 445-5945
March 5, 1990
Mr. Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
Your letter to Mr. Warren Weber dated February 14, 1990 regarding more information
relating to fog research was forwarded to me for reply.
Copies of the "Stockton Fog Dispersal Study" and the "Reduced Visibility (Fog) Study'
are enclosed. You may obtain the other documents as follows:
1. "Operation Fogbound - Accident Reduction Plan" and "Information Bulletin on
Operation FogBound" can be obtained by calling the California Highway Patrol
library in Sacramento at (916) 445-1951 or checking with one of the depository
libraries on the enclosed list.
2. National Cooperation Highway Research Report 95, 'Highway Fog and The
Changeable Message Concept of Traffic Control", Special Report 129, can be
obtained by calling the Transportation Research Board at (202) 334-3213 or
writing them at 2101 Constitution Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20418.
"Detectors for Automatic Fog -Warning Signs" by Bemis is Part Two. Please note that
the report numbers you mention are the same.
We.appreciate your concern, interest and thoughts on this subject. Also, we would be
pleased to discuss your offer of financial support for further studies. Please contact
Mr. Chris Cutler, Chief of the Traffic Safety Research Branch, at (916) 445-4124.
Sincerely,
e.".7 e -p /4,,,�(4
C. D. BARTELL, Chief
Division of Traffic Operations
Enclosures
cc: The Honorable Patrick Johnston
Member of the Assembly
March 1, 1963
By Senators Backstrand and Collier:
Senate Resolution No. 33
Relating to a study of coastal fog conditions
WHEREAS, Seasonal fog conditions which prevail in the
coastal and valley areas of the State cause reduced visibility
and hazardous driving conditions that result in many multiple
traffic collisions on California highways; and
WHEREAS, The outstanding quality of engineering design and
construction of California highways cannot be held accountable
for driver error; and
WHEREAS, A large percentage of the accidents which occur
during periods of reduced visibility due to fog conditions are
directly attributable to driving at unsafe speeds for the
conditions of visibility and errors in judgment by the drivers;
and
WHEREAS, Present speed laws appear to be adequate to
regulate traffic; now therefore be it
Resolved by the Senate of the State of California, That the
Highway Transportation Agency is requested to initiate a stud;
or cause such a study to be made, which will dete_mine possible
means of giving advance warning to drivers of motor vehicles of
the need for greater alertness and caution in driving during,
periods of reduced visibility; and further be it
Resolved, That the study explore the use of warning devices
or other means to inform drivers of existing hazardous conditions
on the roadway; and further be it
Resolved, That the Highway Transportation Agency is directed
to report its findings, including any recommendations, tc t';e
Legislature before March 15, 1965; and be it further
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate be hereby directed
to transmit copies of this resolution to the Highway Tra.^.S=cCrta;.ic
Agency and each department within the agency.
June 29, 1965
(1965 1st Extraordinary Session)
By Senator Collier:
SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 23
Relating to a study of fog conditions
WHEREAS, Seasonal fog conditions which prevail in the
coastal and valley areas of the state cause reduced visibility
and hazardous driving conditions that result in many multiple
traffic collisions on California highways; and
WHEREAS, The Transportation Agency has, pursuant to
Senate Resolution No. 33 (1963), initiated a study to determine
possible means of giving advance warning to drivers of motor
vehicles of the need for greater alertness and caution in driving
during periods of reduced visibility; and
WHEREAS, Weather conditions have been such that there has
been an insufficient amount of fog for the completion of such a
study; now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED BY THE SENATE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, That
the Transportation Agency is requested to continue its studv to
determine possible means of giving such advance warning to drivers
of motor vehicles during periods of reduced visibility; and further
be it
RESOLVED, That the Transportation Agency continue to
explore the use of warning devices or other means to inform
drivers of existing hazardous conditions on the roadway; and
further be it
RESOLVED, That the Transportation Agency is directed to
report its findings, includinc* any recommendations, to the
Legislature before March 15, _967; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the Secretary of the Senate is hereby
directed to transmit copies of this resolution to the Tx_ansportaticn
Agency and each department within the agency.
Referred to Committee on Rules.
June 30, 1965 - Adopted.
-2- c "� 'It C-li' Pi3
�X4,,b��� C-��, �, 4
0 311- CHANNELS' REET PATRICK JOHNSTON
RM. "
STOCKTON. nA 952M ASSEMBLYMAN, TWENTY-SIXTH DISTRICT
M 94&7479 REPRESENTING SAN JOAOUIN COUNTY
March 8, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
As was done before on your behalf, on March 5 a member of
my staff spoke to Warren Weber, Legislative Liaison,
California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), about
your suggestions for decreasing traffic accidents in fog.
Mr. Weber said that while electronic message boards are
used to alert drivers about snow in the mountains and to
alert drivers about traffic congestion for a 50-60 mile
stretch of freeways in Los Angeles this idea would not be
feasible for fog alerts. The reasons electronic message
boards are not feasible for use during fog season in the
central valley are:
1. Where fog settles on a given day is unpredictable
making it impossible to know where to place the
electronic boards and/or warn drivers to slow down
for upcoming fog.
2. There is a 400 mile stretch of the central valley
that is susceptible to fog. Even if Caltrans could
decide on the number of electronic boards that would
be needed and where to arbitrarily place them, the
cost would be very high and the effectiveness dubious
in light of the unpredictability of fog as described
in #1 above.
Mr. Weber said that at this point in time, the most
effective method for reducing fog -related accidents is to
have the California Highway Patrol (CHP) escort drivers
through the fog as the officers patrol freeways in the
central valley.
CHAIRMAN:
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEES
ST ATE CAPITOL�■�j���j
_♦'
EDUCAnON
GOVERNMENTAL AND
P.O. BOX
CA
CONSUMER PROTECO
SACRAMENTO. S<2aSLWt
JUDICIARY
tole) "S-7431
0 311- CHANNELS' REET PATRICK JOHNSTON
RM. "
STOCKTON. nA 952M ASSEMBLYMAN, TWENTY-SIXTH DISTRICT
M 94&7479 REPRESENTING SAN JOAOUIN COUNTY
March 8, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
As was done before on your behalf, on March 5 a member of
my staff spoke to Warren Weber, Legislative Liaison,
California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), about
your suggestions for decreasing traffic accidents in fog.
Mr. Weber said that while electronic message boards are
used to alert drivers about snow in the mountains and to
alert drivers about traffic congestion for a 50-60 mile
stretch of freeways in Los Angeles this idea would not be
feasible for fog alerts. The reasons electronic message
boards are not feasible for use during fog season in the
central valley are:
1. Where fog settles on a given day is unpredictable
making it impossible to know where to place the
electronic boards and/or warn drivers to slow down
for upcoming fog.
2. There is a 400 mile stretch of the central valley
that is susceptible to fog. Even if Caltrans could
decide on the number of electronic boards that would
be needed and where to arbitrarily place them, the
cost would be very high and the effectiveness dubious
in light of the unpredictability of fog as described
in #1 above.
Mr. Weber said that at this point in time, the most
effective method for reducing fog -related accidents is to
have the California Highway Patrol (CHP) escort drivers
through the fog as the officers patrol freeways in the
central valley.
C 31 E CHANNEL STREET PATRICK JOHNSTON
RM. 3W
STOCKTON,CAftM ASSEMBLYMAN, TYYENTY•,IXTH DISTRICT
c�oai�•� REPRESENTING SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY
March 8, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
CHAIRMAN:
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEES
EOUCATION
GOVERNMENTAL EFFICIENCY AND
CONSUMER PROTECTION
JUDICIARY
As was done before on your behalf, on March 5 a member of
my staff spoke to Warren Weber, Legislative Liaison,
California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), about
your suggestions for decreasing traffic accidents in fog.
Mr. Weber said that while electronic mes3age boards are
used to alert drivers about snow in the mountains and to
alert drivers about traffic congestion for a 50-60 mile
stretch of freeways in Los Angeles this idea would not be
feasible for fog alerts. The reasons electronic message
boards are not feasible for use during fog season in the
central valley are:
1. Where fog settles on a given day is unpredictable
making it impossible to know where to place the
electronic boards and/or warn drivers to slow down
for upcoming fog.
2. There is a 400 mile stretch of the central valley
that is susceptible to fog. Even if Caltrans could
decide on the number of electronic boards that would
be needed and where to arbitrarily place them, the
cost would be very high and the effectiveness dubious
in light of the unpredictability of fog as described
in 41 above.
Mr. Weber said that at this point in time, the most
effective method for reducing fog -related accidents is to
have the California Highway Patrol (CHP) escort drivers
through the fog as the officers patrol freeways in the
central valley.
AsormhlU
G STAP0.
s
h
BOCAPITOL
V.O. 2549
&1ifornin
AM
SACRAMENTO. CA 94294249 -OMI
(316) KS.ri3t
C 31 E CHANNEL STREET PATRICK JOHNSTON
RM. 3W
STOCKTON,CAftM ASSEMBLYMAN, TYYENTY•,IXTH DISTRICT
c�oai�•� REPRESENTING SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY
March 8, 1990
Michael Barkley
161 Sheridan Avenue #1
Manteca, CA 95336
Dear Mr. Barkley:
CHAIRMAN:
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEES
EOUCATION
GOVERNMENTAL EFFICIENCY AND
CONSUMER PROTECTION
JUDICIARY
As was done before on your behalf, on March 5 a member of
my staff spoke to Warren Weber, Legislative Liaison,
California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), about
your suggestions for decreasing traffic accidents in fog.
Mr. Weber said that while electronic mes3age boards are
used to alert drivers about snow in the mountains and to
alert drivers about traffic congestion for a 50-60 mile
stretch of freeways in Los Angeles this idea would not be
feasible for fog alerts. The reasons electronic message
boards are not feasible for use during fog season in the
central valley are:
1. Where fog settles on a given day is unpredictable
making it impossible to know where to place the
electronic boards and/or warn drivers to slow down
for upcoming fog.
2. There is a 400 mile stretch of the central valley
that is susceptible to fog. Even if Caltrans could
decide on the number of electronic boards that would
be needed and where to arbitrarily place them, the
cost would be very high and the effectiveness dubious
in light of the unpredictability of fog as described
in 41 above.
Mr. Weber said that at this point in time, the most
effective method for reducing fog -related accidents is to
have the California Highway Patrol (CHP) escort drivers
through the fog as the officers patrol freeways in the
central valley.
Warren Weber did however acknowledge that your
suggestion that new technology focused on reducing accidents
in fog should be followed up and investigated by Caltrans.
Caltrans is currently looking into this matter and will
report to me on the results of their investigation.
Mr. Weber assured me that he would share the results of
Caltrans' research with you.
Sincere
PJ : lcg
_....._.....- . ..... .
ict
Michael J. Barkley
161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1
Manteca, CA 95336
209/823-4817
April 18, 1990
Assemblyman Patrick Johnston
31 East Channel, Rm. 306
Stockton, CA 95202
Dear Assemblyman Johnston:
Congratulations on finding yourself unopposed in the June Primary,
and thank you for your letter of March 8, 1990.
I have been contemplating this draft since I received your letter
because your letter troubled me terribly. My mind keeps drifting back to
what I saw on December 18 and the inescapable conclusion that I have drawn
from that morning's events: Although CalTrans and CHP were fully aware of
the immediate probability of death and destruction on that stretch of I-5 on
the morning of December 18 they did NOTHING to warn the drivers on I-5 about
what lay ahead. Parts of this conscious, deliberate decision not to warn
the public of its immediate peril have continued for at least 27 years with
the full cooperation of the State Legislature. I was there that morning, I
know what I saw, and I find these decisions indefensible.
them.
Several comments stick out in your letter and I would like to discuss
"As was done before on your behalf...."
Whoa. Do you think that's what this is about? My behalf? What
about next winter's crop of widows and orphans? 1 shouldn't even have to
write these letters!
"The reasons electronic message boards are not_ feasible for use
during fog season in the central valley are:
"1. Where fog settles on a given day is unpredictable
making it impossible to know where to place the
electronic boards and or warn drivers to slow
down for upcoming fog."
Place them everywhere. Use them for traffic guidance when there is no fog,
like "I-205 slows to 20 mph at MacArthur" or "I-5 closed at Grapevine" or
"Black Ice, I-5 overpass." 1-205 needs them every day of the week because
of the way San Joaquin and Stanislaus County development has overdrawn
capacity on that highway. Use them for warnings, like "Your speed 70, slow
to 55" and get these officers RADAR! I still think we should be entitled to
as much traffic advice as Bay Bridge, Los Angeles, or Donner Pass motorists
get, fog or no fog. And if the state is going to provide warnings to Bay
Bridge or Los Angeles motorists for "convenience", the state ought to tell
the rest of us when we are going to die when the state KNOWS it and we
don't.
On p. B-1 of the March 23 (Livermore) Herald was the article
"Cameras to aid I-680 Commuters
Assemblyman Patrick Jo: .ton
p. 2
April 18, 1990
"Caltrans will try high-tech system to unsnarl
traffic tie-ups during highway construction
"By Mary Yanni
"Staff Writer
"WALNUT CREEK - Closed-circuit television cameras
will help Caltrans ease the commuter nightmare that
may result from construction on Interstate 680 by
quickly spotting traffic tie-ups.
"Caltrans will begin using the high-technology
'traffic management plan' near the end of this year,
project manager Tracy Emlay said.
"Closed-circuit cameras and traffic sensors in the
pavement will alert Caltrans' Walnut Creek office to
stalled cars and accidents, she said."
And so on. why is it that Contra Costa County gets this kind of
consideration for inconvenience, and we don't get it to save lives?
"2. There is a 400 mile stretch of the central valley that
is susceptible to fog. Even if Caltrans could
decide on the number of electronic boards that
would be needed and where to arbitrarily place them,
the cost would be very high and the effectiveness
dubious in light of the unpredictability of fog as
described in #1 above."
This winter we had 400 -mile fog banks. What kind of cost is Mr. Weber
talking about? On December 18 we sent 30 people to the hospital. A class
action suit over an incident such as the 12/18/89 I-5 pileup could wind up
costing the state $20,000,000 in judgments, since both CalTrans and CHP KNEW
of the specific obstructions and as far as I can tell they did not warn the
people on 1-5. I know they were putting out flares on SR 120 although it's
taken me three such experiences (12/14/88, 12/14/89, and 12/18/89) to
understand that when they put out those flares they are trying to tell
motorists there is an accident ahead. Although I have been asking the
question for three months, I still do not know if they were putting out
flares on I-5 as well, though from tAe moment that Branson -Cross lumber
truck flipped on its back blocking lanes 1, 2, and 3 the I-5 drivers like
Mr. Degler were doomed. CHP officers risk their lives to put out those
stupid flares and they don't even convey the message to most motorists.
Can't we do better than that?
As for dubious benefit, what's it going to take? How many widows and
orphans? For two days running we filled every emergency room in the County
(and if Amtrak is going to run at 70 mph in the fog without grade
separations, then there should be an additional warning light a hundred
yards back of their crossings, synchronized with the :rossirg gates). The
only unpredictability is what day the fog will appear, not that it will
appear at all. If you are in tornado country, you still dig a storm cellar
even if you don't know what day the tornado will hit. I'd hate to think
that the real reason nothing's been done is that the victims haven't yet
figured out that they don't have to die out there and until they do figure
that out CalTrans just doesn't want to do the work.
"Mr. Weber said that at this point in time, the most effective method
for reducing fog -related accidents is to have the California Highway Patrol
(CHP) escort drivers through the fog as the officers patrol freeways in
.Assemblyman Patrick Jc ston
p. 3
the central valley."
April 18, 1990
I have several problems with this. First, I understand they aren't
doing this anymore because they don't have the money for it. Second, it
puts these officers in -jeopardy, especially and unless they have collision
detection and avoidance systems installed in these pilot cars. Third, if
it's 35 mph fog or less, the guy in the car at the back end of the line is
still a sitting duck. Fourth, CHP has better things to do. If other
drivers, such as the entire trucking industry, could be enlisted to handle
the pilot duties, then CHP would be relieved of this duty (which they aren't
doing anyway) to do what they need to do, apprehend and yank the driving
privileges of the homicidal/suicidal yo-yos who think driving 70 mph in 30
mph fog is fun. CHP does not have enough officers to do what Mr. Weber
says. The recent dearth of such convoy activity proves that.
Mr. Bartell's aide (CalTrans, 916/445-4121) was good enough to send
me a copy of some reports including Senate Resolutions 1963-33 and 1965-23
directing CalTrans to get off its collective fanny and figure out ways to
warn motorists. Twenty-seven years and all CalTrans has come up with is 3
sets of plastic markers for freeway exits, and a convoy system for CHP which
nobody I've talked to has even seen in use in recent years. That's a
TERRIBLE record! Does CalTrans just not want to do anything? Does CalTrans
just not have the support of the public or the Legislature? Are they
waiting for us? what do we have to do to develop the support?
As for technology and cost, perhaps the concept set forth in the
enclosed letter to Mr. Appel of Radio Shack would appeal to you. It's
better than free, it could generate a pot -load of sales tax revenue. How
would you feel about supporting this concept? Please let me know what I can
do to help. I don't want to die out there next Decf-mber, and I don't want
to lose any more neighbors.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Barkley
,�Xkh c-13, r, 3
r,
O STATE CAPITOL
P.O. BOX 9428Q
SACRAMENTO.6194249-0001
t9161445-7931
0 31 E CHANNEL STREET
RM. 306
STOCXTON.CA
[:.'091948-7479
�ssrmfalv
PATRICK JOHNSTON
ASSEMBLYMAN, TWENTY-SrATH DISTRICT
REPRESENTING SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY
July 3, 1990
CHAIRMAN:
FINANCE AND INSURANCE
EDUCATION
GOVERNMENTAL EFFKxNCY AnD
CONSUMER PROTECTION
JUDICIARY
REVENUE AND TAXATION
Michael Barkley
161 Sherida Ave ue 1
Manteca, 953
Dear Mr. B
As a follow up to your concern that the California
Department of Transportation (Caltrans) should be doing zll
it can to implement the use of the latest devices that could
reduce traffic accidents and deaths on our freeways when fog
is involved, I recently shared with Caltrans Director Robert
Best and Assistant Director for Legislative Affairs Warren
Weber a computerized data base list of the most recent
worldwide publications on fog and safety available to the
Transportation Research Board (TRB), in Washington, D.C.
I urged Mr. Best and Mr. Weber to have Caltrans staff
review the information with an open mind and an eye toward
adapting any relevant information from the TRB to the fog
situation we have in the San Joaquin Valley in general and
San Joaquin County in particular.
I appreciate your ongoing concern about this issue. Ns
soon as I receive a reply from Bob Best or Warren Weber I
will share it with you.
PJ:lcg
Sincergl)j,
'PAT1f1XK JOHNSTON
Assemblyman, 26th District
�x h►bI-c-1-.
>From usc.edu!kjh%pollux.u� edu Fri Jun 8 17:21:35 1990 ote from ns.XXXXX.COM
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Fri, 8 Jun 90 17:21:24 PDT
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 17:21:24 PDT
From: kjhtpollux.usc.edu@usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson)
Message -Id: <9006090021.P.A296978pollux.usc.edu>
To: mbark@XXXXX.COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CS "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ba. tranaportat ion
In -Reply -To: <76058XXXXX.XXXXX.00H>
Organization: EE -Systems, Univ. of So. Calif., Los Angeles
In article <7605@)CCKXX.XXXXX.COM> irbark6XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> [... stuff deleted ...1
> --that Citizens Band Radio
> [... stuff deleted ...)
> THEREFORE, we the undersigned people do hereby petition the FCC
> [... stuff deleted ...j
Pardon my bad attitude, but who the h*11 cares about that spectrum
anymore? Take your petition elsewhere. A few hams on here are old
enough to remember when the band was stolen_ from us. The only
petition we're likely to support is a petition to return those
frequencies to the amateur service.
Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/6 kjh8u3c.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
Path: XXXXX!XXXXXlXXXXX.com!mips!ames!ig!mcb
From: mcb2pre3to.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
Newsgroups: ca,driving, rec, autos. driving, ba. transportation
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.125672presto.ig.com>
Date: 8 Jun 90 18:15:08 GMT
References: <76068XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Followup-To: ca.driving
Distribution: usa
Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, Calif. USA
Lines: 24
Xref: XXXXX ca.d--iving:3263 rec. autos .driving:1459 ba. transportation: 782
I think Mike Barkley's idea of a "Traffic Advisory" channel on CB is a
good one, but I don't understand the need for a fancy petition to the
"Honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission" and
all the hifalutin' "We the undersigned" stuff.
The best way to handle this, is seems to me, is to pick a channel or
channels, start using it/them, send letters to the'CB magazines (are
there any left?), get the word out in the community, and voila',
instant "Traffic Advisory" channel (a). The *worst* thing to do is to get
the government involved; the FCC will want to form an advisory
committee, then hold a few years of hearings, and by then nobody will
be interested anymore.
I haven't paid any particular attention to C9 in the last 10 years or
so, but my understanding is that each of the long-haul interstates
still have CS channels informally associated with them, and that
truckers still make extensive use of this to exchange road condition
information.. (I would suggest that Mr. Barkley talk to some
professional long-haul truckers; I strongly suspect that attempts to
solve the problem have already been made.)
V,t 6 ,i- D , P, I
Michael C. Berch
meb@presto.ig.com / uunet!presro.ig.com!mcb / ames!bionet!mcb
Path: ;C0=!XXXXX!X 0=.com!aures!ucsd!usc!venera.isi.edu!raveling
From: raveling@isi.edu (Paul Raveling)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <138356venera.isi.edu>
Date: 8 Jun 90 21:55:30 GMT
References: <7606@X3CCXX.XXXXX.COH> <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.cor.t>
Sender: news@venera.isi.edu
Reply -To: raveling@isi.edu (Paul Raveling)
Distribution: usa
Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute
Lines: 28
In article <Jun.8.12.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.com>, mcb@presto.ig.com
(Michael C. Berch) writes:
> I think Mike Barkley's idea of a "Traffic Advisory" channel on CB is r_
> good one, but I don't understand the need for a fancy petition to the
> "honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission" and
> all the hifalutin' "We the undersigned" stuff.
There are two issues here that probably call for FCC regulation.
The one the petition dealt with was dedication of some
particular CS channel to this specific use. It's possible
that this could be done by popular acclaim, but chances of
Success might be higher if the FCC just dictates its.
The other issue is that this use calls for broadcasting
by individual CS stations. Unless the law has changed since I
was a ham, only point-to-point communications are legal for
CB or the amateur bands. The sole exception is limited
broadcasting for the purpose of establishing point-to-point
communication. Official use of broadcasting on a CB band
would call for a change in FCC regulations. Unofficially,
many either ignore or tiptoe around this restriction even
now.
----------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@isi.edu
Path: XXXXX!X>0= !XXXXX.com!111-winken!uunet!samsung!usc!uc3d! network. ucad.edu!celit!dave
From: dave@fpe.com (Dave Smith)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition.
Message -ID: <9031@celit.fps.com>
Date: 9 Jun 90 00:17:44 GbIT
References: <7606@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.cam> <13835@venera
.isi.edu>
Sender: daemon@fps.com
Reply -To: dave@fps.com (Dave Smith)
Distribution: usa
Organization: FPS Computing Inc., San Diego CA
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In article <13835evenera.isi.edu> raveling@isi.edu (Paul Raveling) writes:
There are two issues here that probably call for FCC regulation.
Ex k( I ; ` 1
�},
2
The one the petitir^dealt with was dedication of 3e'
particular CB than. . to this specific use. It's pc. .ible
that :his could be done by popular acclaim, but chances of
success might be higher if the FCC just dictates its.
How so? I have a CB radio. I know channel 9 is for emergency use, and that's
about it. When I bought the radio, the pamphlet that came with it said
that, and that's all. I'm not registered with the FCC, they don't send
out little "CB Radio Usage guides" or anything else. Heck, I don't
even remember any of the CB lingo that every one was so fond of back in the
'70'3.
Less government, not more! Having the FCC designate a channel will just mean
lora of expense.
The other issue is that this use calls for broadcasting
by individual CB stations. Unless the law has changed since I
was a ham, only point-to-point communications are legal for
CB or the amateur bands. The sole exception is limited
broadcasting for the purpose of establishing point-to-point
communication. "Official use of broadcasting on a CB band
would call for a change in FCC regulations. Unofficially,
many either ignore or tiptoe around this restriction even
now.
As far as I can tell the FCC has abandoned trying to enforce much of
anything in CB radio. I know that power limits are often ignored as
are language (profane) restrictions.
David L. Smith
FPS Computing, San Diego
ucsd!celerity!dave or dave@fps.com
* * *QUOTE CENSORED BY ORDER OF REV. MOM!* * *
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!aM S !ucsd!usc!aero!faigin
From: faigin@aerospace.aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message-ID:<FAIGIN.90Jun8133111@sunstroke.aerospace.aero.org>
Date: 8 Jun 90 20:31:11 GMT
References: <7606@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.com>
Sender: news@aerospaCe.aero.org
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In -reply -to: mcb0presto.1g.com'3 message of 8 Jun 90 18:15:08 GMT
In article <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.com> mcb@presto.ig.com
(Michael C. Berch) writes:
I haven't paid any particular attention to CB in the last 10 years or
so, but my understanding is that each of the long-haul interstates
still have CB channels informally associated with them, and that
truckers still make extensive use of this to exchange road condition
information.
Well, at least here in Southern California, along the I-405 Fwy between the
San Fernando Valley and LA, thers is a club called valley CB -era (a/k/a "The
Over The Hill Gang or OTHG) that exchanges traffic information using Channel
14.
if you want information on,�. , drop me a note. �^
Daniel "OtherSeast" Faigin
[:.']:The Aerospace Corp M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 & 213/336-8228
[H]:9758 Natick Avenue * Sepulveda CA 91343 * 818/892-8555 If you turn it
[Em]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org * Faigin2dockmaster.ncsc.mil over and don't
[Vmail]:213/336-5454 Box#3149 { let it go, yo%i end up upside down
Path: 3CGilt'd!X)=!XXXXX.com!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com
!Michele Aar Cimbala
Frau: Michele_AnnCimbala@cup.portal.com
c
Newsgroups: re.r_adio.shortwave
Subject: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" Petition
Message -ID: <30639@cup.portal.com>
Date: 9 Jun 90 02:59:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 75
Concerning whether the FCC is open to petitions for rulemaking: In a
word - yes. Initiation of a rulemaking procedure by an interested
party can be scught under at least two paths - (1) invoking section
553(e) of the Administrative Procedure Act and, in this case (2)
invoking 47 C.F.R. section 1.401(a) [C.F.R. stands for the Code of
Federal Regulations].
I believe the Administrative Procedure Act (APA) applies to any agency.
It is a statute (5 U.S.C.), passed by Congress, and not merely a rule
passed by an agency like the CFR regulations.
Section 553(e) states:
Each agency shall give an interested person the right to
petition for the issuance, amendment, or repeal of a rule.
The agency must respond to you as per APA section 555(e) which states:
Prompt notice shall be given of the denial in whole or
in part of a written application, petition, or other
request of an interested person made in connection with
any agency proceeding. Except in affirming a prior
denial or when the denial is self-explanatory, the
notice shall be accompanied by a brief statement of
the grounds for denial.
The rules of the FCC parallel the above. 47 CFR 1.401(x)(1979) states
that any interested party may petition the Commission for "the
issuance, amendment or repeal" of a rule or regulation. And,
47 CFR section 1.407 (1979) acknowledges that, when a petition is filed,
the FCC must determine whether the petition "discloses sufficient
reasons in support of the action requested to justify the institution
of a rulemaking proceeding.
If you are really interested in learning how to deal with the FCC,
as an interested party, I recommend you read/subscribe to Fred Maia's
H5YI Report. (P.O. Box 565101, Dallas, TX 75356-5101)
1 have no monetary interest in this newsletter except that I'm
a very happy sub.criber. It reports on FCC petitions, etc, publishes
twice a month, *23.00/year.
In the March 1, 1990 issue, Fred published excerpts from the recent
FCC "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" in which they propose to establish
a new class of amateur operator license - the codeless license. In
the FCC's notice, they publish excerpts of 12 petitioners like yaurself
which they received on thi34-03ue, prior to deciding to adopo-.i
the Notice of Proposed Ruli :ing (NPRM) in that matter. Re ng '
those petitions should give you some idea of what kind of
statements the FCC is looking for from the 'interested party'
so as to result in the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.
Fred Maia states in his newletter that he will send a full-length
copy of the FCC's NPRM for $1.00 - ask for Docket No. 90-55.
In this NPRM, the FCC quoted directed from 12 different petitioners
from around the country who had petitioned in this issue, and,
while the topic is not exactly on point with what you want, the
language in the petitions might be of interest to you.
I wish you luck. *ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOTHING* of the above
should be construed as legal advice and you are on notice that
it may all be *WRONG*. I am not a lawyer, nor am- I employed by
any branch of government, executive, legislative, or judicial, and,
in particular, not by any of the following agencies:
<insert your favorite three initials here>.
I just think shortwave and CB is fun and I'm studying for my
amateur license.
So, with those thoughts in mind, have a nice day and I hope
your team wins. :>
Michele
Michele A. Cimbala@cup.portal.com
Path: XXXXX!mbark
From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ca.driving, ba. transportation, misc.emerg-sery
ices,rec.auto9.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel* petition
Message -ID: <7617@XXXXX.3D0=.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 90 19:30:44 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> <25212@usc.edu>
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: XXXXX, XXXXX, CA
Lines: 94
Xref: XXXXX rec.ham-radio:21923 rec. radio. shortwave: 2400 ca.driving:3277 ba.transportation
:786 mi3c.emerg-3ervice3:1085 rec.autos.driving:1505
In article <25212@u3c.edu>, kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
> In article <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXXXX.CC:4 (Michael Barkley) writes:
> > [... stuff deleted ...)
> > --that Citizens Band Radio
> > (... stuff deleted ...)
> > THEREFORE, we the undersigned people do hereby petition the FCC
> > [... stuff deleted ...)
> Pardon my bad attitude, but who the h*11 cares about that spectrum
> anymore? Take your petition elsewhere. A few hams on here are old
> enough to remember when the band was _stolen_ from us. The only
> petition we're likely to support is a petition to return those
> frequencies to the amateur service.
> Ken Hendrickson N8DGN16 kjh@usc.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollux!kjh
The closest I have gotten to ham radio is listening to my brother's hobby
as I was growing up (it's been awhile, Y.6ROO, Walnut Creek). I was unaware
that CII channels were stolen from the hams and did not mean to provoke
hostility with my posting. --There are three reasons I poste'— y request to
rec.ham-radio:
1) You all have FCC experience and you might be able to help with form
and content,
2) You all have FCC experience and you might be able to offer constructive
advice on whether or not the FCC would be responsive, etc., and
3) At least in my minimal experience, the ham community has always been
very supportive of the use of the airways to save lives and avert
disaster.
Over the past two years I have been in the middle of multiple -vehicle
chain -reaction collisions in the fog in the San Joaquin Valley. On
12/18/89 the pileups totaled some 60 vehicles, sent 30 people to the
hospital, and one to the morgue - the guy who died was less than a
hundred yards behind me. On 12/14/88 the pileups totaled 30 vehicles,
sent 29 people to the hospital, and one to the morgue - this guy was
also less than a hundred yards behind me. On 12/18/89 I watched a
car climb over another one two cars behind me, and burst into flames.
I watched a half dozen individual collisions next to me on I-5 and
heard another half dozen back in the fog.
We all know the cause of such collisions are that motorists are
go ng too fast for conditions. But there is another cause as well. We
installing such systems on the San Francisco Bay Bridge, and issuing
press releases about installing them at I-680/SR-24, and along other
freeways in the Bay Area to reduce congestion. They have informed me
directly, and through my Assemblyman, that they do not have the money
tv install such systems in the Central Valley to save lives, although
they do have the money to install them for convenience of the motoring
public in the Bay Area.
I had hoped that as an interim measure, CS could help, on
12/18/89 there were many large trucks involved, some jackknifed, one
flipped completely over on its back (he was cited, but not for the
manslaughter that resulted), and so on. The collisions had
gone on for some 10 to 15 minutes before I arrived on the scene. I
was doing 30-35 mph (scared out of my wits) and barely had time to stop.
It seems that CB might be the best way to get the warnings out to the
truckers and others with CB radios to.furnish this warning of the
obstruction ahead, and reduce the piling on that follows such initial
collisions. It might also be one of the best ways to gain consensus
among motorists in the fog on what the maximum safe speed is, including
from that "Pic'n Save" big rig engaged in a 70 mph speed contest with a
jacked -up 4wd pickup in 40 mph fog westbound on SR 120 at Airport Way at
8:15 a.m. on 12/20/89. For instance.
(Beyond that, I would look forward tc the day when I would be
able to gain advance notice of traffic tie-ups, know specifically
where the other end of the jam is, and what caused it, and more
efficiently select an alternate route.)
t',ut without some sort of channel specified for "traffic
advisory", accompanied by self-discipline of the users, I doubt
that it would work. I know of no way to get a consensus among CB
users to agree on rulemaking without the ECC intervening and doing
for the corraunity.
How about it, hams? Is this idea worth your support? Can
you help?
--Mike
(my employer has been selectively supportive of these viewpoints
but has not endorsed the cent of this posting]
(contrast this with the wonderful suggestions from Michele Ann Cimbala
at Message -ID: <306398cup.portal.com> in rec.radio.shortwave.
Thank you so much, Michele! We will be pursuing those avenues.]
>From cbnewsl.att.com!grk Tue Jun 12 07:13:27 1990 remote from ns_)ODDDC.COM
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 90 09:57:16 EDT
From: grk@attunix.att.com (George R Kuntz)
To: mbark@XXMCX.COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec. radio. shortwave, ca. driving, ba. transportation, misc_e_-nerg-sery
ices,rec.autos.driving
In -Reply -To: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COH>
References: <76G6@XXXXX.XX)=.COH> <25212@use.edu>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Cc:
I think you have a good idea! I don't own a CB radio, but if your
idea takes hold, I'll consider buying one for each car.
G_ Ralph Kuntz, M.S., N2HBN, EMT -A, EIEIO grk@attunix.att.com
From mjbarkl wed Jun 13 12:47 PDT 1990
To:XXXXX!att-in.att.com!grk@attunix.att.com
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
> I think you have a good idea! I don't own a CB radio, but if your
> idea takes hold, I'll consider buying one for each car.
Hi Ralph, thanks for your note.
You wouldn't happen to be in New Jersey, would you? If I remember
correctly there have been some horrendous pileups in the fog on the
Garden State Freeway over the past few decades. If you are there, or
know anybody there I would appreciate info on when they were and near
what towns or cities with newspapers they were.
In general, I've found newspapers very supportive of improving traffic
controls in the fog to stop these pileups, but the trick is to get
them proposals they can believe in.
--Mike
>From PRC.Unisys.COM!darrel Tue Jun 12 09:40:24 1990 remote from ns.X:OIXX.COM
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 90 12:40:14 -0400
From: darrel@PRC.Unisys.CGM (Darrel J. Van Buer)
Message -Id: <9006121640.AA152350bigburd.PRC.Uni3ys.COM>
To: mbark@X)CM .COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroun3: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ca.driving,ba.transportation,misc.emerg-,sere
ices,ree.autos.dr.iving
In -Reply -To: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@u3c.edu> C >(h}��j� �! ��
organization: Unisys Corpc_�'ion, Culver City, CA
Cc:
I missed your original proposal, but will make a couple of comments:
CB channels 9 and 19 are already designated for activity somewhat like what
you propose (I think) .
When CB exploded in popularity during the oil embargo, the FCC really lost
almost all control of the band, they were so inundated, they .even gave up on
formal licensing (I can remember when you had to be 18 and send in an
application to be legal). With their limited manpower, about all they do on
CB is suppress the most blatant sale and use of illegal amplifiers (in the
last year, I rememberr two CB actions making the ham news channels: one.. was
someone operating 10,000 watts on CB [even ham gear is limited to 1,500
watts, and the CB limit is 5 or 6 watts!!), the other was a dealer in
northern Calif. selling illegal amps.
You will never get the FCC to enforce more than the most blatant violations
of the rules.
The service rules for CB are pretty broad (except the limit to short range),
so that you probably would not need FCC permission to set up such an
advisory (you should be able to get a brief copy of the CB rules from most
CB dealers to check).
I would suggest that a reasonable course would be to raise money and support
from a few CB and auto clubs for advertising and billboards on I-5 saying
something like:
"In heavy fog? Get on CB channel 9 to report it (and listen for fog ahead)"
If the CS users don't/won't allow such use of the channel despite the rules,
I'm afraid you're just stuck.
Your chances are better now that a few years ago (CB has died down a little)
and I wish you luck.
X16VY (ham), Darrel J. Van Suer
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!aures!ucsd!sdd.hp.com!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!texbell!uudell!ninj
a!root
From: root@ninja.dell.com (Randy Davis)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Summary: What's wrong with channel 19?
Message -ID: <6235@uudell.dell.com>
Date: 21 Jun 90 15:06:03 GMT
Sender: news@uudell.dell.com
Reply -To: rjd@ninja.dell.com@uudell.dell.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dell Computer Corp., Austin TX
Lines: 16
In article <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.com- mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
writes:
(I think -Mike Barkley's idea of a "Traffic Advisory" channel on CB is a
)good one, but I don't understand the need for a fancy petition to the
("Honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission" and
[all the hifalutin' "We the undersigned" stuff.
I agree... What's wrong with channel 19? Last few trips I used a CB (a
few months back), channel 19 still has the most traffic and most of it about
traffic conditions, most notably police presence. I don't see how making it
"official" will change anything. The most common user's of CB radios are the
truckers, and they all use 19 for traffic and general making contact with
friends. Most conversations are taken to another channel, leaving it open for
traffic and police information. n
C�� h,b J, O. El
Randy Davis UUCP: rjd@n4-�a dell.com
>From pc.usl.edu!jpd Tue Jun 12 09:50:21 1990 remote from ns.XXXXX.COM
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 90 11:50:05 -0500
From: jpd@pc.usl.edu (jpd Dugal James P.)
Message -Id: <9006121650.AA02305@pc.usl.edu>
To: mbark@XXXXX.CrA4
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ca. driving, ba. t ransportat ion, misc. emerg-sery
ices,rec.autos.driving
In -Reply -To: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COb>
References: <7605@XXXXX.XM=.COM> <25212@usc.edu>
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Cc:
Mike, doesn't CB channel 19 come close to what you are asking? Around here
it seems to be monitored for radar trap info, and would seem to be the place
to hear about traffic tie-ups, etc.
The problem with CB is the lack of discipline; someone playing Country &
western music can reader a channel uselese for miles around. Ch 9
was supposed to be for emergency use; some radios will switch to ch 9 when
they detect activity on the channel.
I don't have much hope for a service such as you describe working out.
-- James Dugal, N5KNX Internet: jpd@usl.edu
Associate Director Ham packet: n5knx@w5ddl
Computing Center US Mail: PO Box 42770 Lafayette, LA 70504
University of Southwestern LA. Tel. 318-231-6417 U.S.A.
>From LU*AE.BYU.EDU!LDG Tue Jun 12 10.04:16 1990 remote from ns.XXXXX.COM
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 90 11:01 MST
From: "Lyle D. Gunderson" <LDG@LUKE.BYU.EDU>
Subject: CB proposal to FCC
To: mbark@XXXXX.COM, kjh@pollux.usc.edu
Message-Id:<7EA43D621F7F6010E3@LUKE.BYU.EDU>
X -Envelope -To: mbark@XXXXX.COM
X-Vms-To: IN%"mbark%XXXXX.COM@cc.utah.edu"
X -vets -Cc: IN%'kjh%pollux.usc.edu@cc.utah.edu"
I like and will support your proposal regarding a CB advisory channel.
Ignore idiots like Hendrickson. He is what we hams c^11 a 'lid' --
somebody to be ashamed of. An embarrassment to the amateur radio SERVICE,
whose reason for existence is, in part, public service. As in, helping
-YOU- out.
Keep up the good work!
Lyle D. Gunderson N6KSZ "Any technology without ! ldg@yoda.byu.edu
350 CB/BYU some attendant risk of misuse I CIS: 73760,2354
Provo UT 84602 is probably trivial" I GEnie: L.GUNDERSON
--Louise Kohl ( AO: LGunderson
�_:xhk"b1_7�_ D, P19
>rrom wyse!wyse.com!stevew-Tue Jun 12 09:44:08 1990 remote -mom mips
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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 90 09:31:08 PDT
From: mips!wyse.com!stevew (Steve Wilson +2580 dept303)
Message -id: <9006121631.AA22180@wyse.wyse.com>
To: mips!X)C=.COM!mbark
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. short wave, ca. driving, ba. tran sport ation, misc. emerg-sere
ices,rec.autos.driving
In -Reply -To: <7617@XXXXX.XX)=.CON>
References: <7605@XXXY_X.XXXXX.COt> <25212@usc.edu>
Organization: Wyse Technology
Bad -Cc:
In article <7617@XX)=.XXXXX.COM> you write:
>The closest I have gotten to ham radio is listening to my brother's hobby
>as I was growing up (it's been awhile, MOD, Walnut Creek). I was unaware
>that CB channels were stolen from the hams and did not mean to provoke
>hostility with my posting. There are three reasons I posted my request to
>rec.ham-radio:
Please note that Ken is one of our local extremists
>Over the past two years I have been in the middle of multiple -vehicle
>chain -reaction collisions in the fog in the San Joaquin Valley. On
>12/18/89 the pileups totaled some 60 vehicles, sent 30 people to the
>hospital, and one to the morgue - the guy who died was less than a
>hundred yards behind me.
Oddly enough I believe the #2 or #3 car in the pile up was KJ6CW who
is a local emergency co-ordinator for ARES here in SCV., The entire
vehicle was filled with hams though I'm not real sure they were
in any shape to help at that point ... All are ok, but were real
shaken up. Their vehicle did a complete role if I recall correctly....
> We all know the cause of such collisions are that motorists are
>going too fast for conditions. But there is another cause as well. We
! >have the technology available to advise motorists of the maximum safe
=; >speed for conditions, out there, in the fog, where it counts. We have
>the technology available to warn motorists when they are exceeding those
>speeds, and we have it available to enforce the speeds. CalTrans is
'installing such systems on the San Francisco Bay Bridge, and is
>press releases about installing them at I-680/SR-24, and along other
>freeways in the Bay Area to reduce congestion. They have informed me
>directly, and through my Assemblyman, that they do not have the money
>to install such systems in the Central Valley to save lives, although
>they do have the money to install them for convenience of the motoring
>public in the Bay Area.
> stuff deleted...
> But without some sort of channel specified for "traffic
>advisory", accompanied by self-discipline of the users, I doubt
>that it would work. I know of no way to get a consensus among CB
>users to agree on rulemaking without the FCC intervening and doing,
>for the community.
The problem(as viewed from the ham world with PIAT of bias) is that
the CB service has NO discipline. This isn't absolutely true as
demonstrated by the multitude of REACT teams throughout the
country. However, the use of CB for much of anything really
constructive just isn't conceivable to me at this time..... just
listen to the use the CB channels receive in anv of the big
cities in CA and you'll begin to share my opinion. As you say
it would take "self-discip--" e" which that service really h`i 't
'demonstrated in large quan _ies. Good luck...
Steve KA6S
From mjbsrkl-Tue Jun 12 11:24 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!mips!wyse.com!stevew
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" in the Fog
O Please note that Ken is one of our local extremists
Thanks. But he also opened the opportunity for response, so he has
his uses....
O The problem(as viewed from the.ham world with ALOT of bias) is that
O the CB service has NO discipline.
True, most CB is junk radio, but it seems to me that under the type of
conditions that existed 12/18/89 most of the nonsense would be set aside
because of the sheer white -knuckle terror. one can hope. Anything
would be better than getting squashed in the melee once a year.
O This isn't absolutely true as
O demonstrated by the multitude of REACT teams throughout the
O country.
I have joined REACT and asked theca for their support. Still waiting.
Also, CRASH out of San Francisco. Abuses of Channel 9 draw immediate
fire and most of the perpetrators give it up from what I have seen.
Perhaps the self-discipline could be extended.
O >Over the past two years I have been in the middle of multiple -vehicle
O >chain -reaction collisions in the fog in the San Joaquin valley. on
O >12/18/89 the pileups totaled some 60 vehicles, sent 30 people to the
O >hospital, and one to the morgue - the guy who died was less than a
<> >hundred yards behind me.
O
O Oddly enough I believe the #2 or #3 car in the pile up was KJ6CW who
<> is a local emergency co-ordinator for ARES here in SCV. The entire
<> vehicle was filled with hams though I'm not real sure they were
O in any shape to help at that point ... All are ok, but were real
O shaken up. Their vehicle did a complete role if I recall correctly....
If they were #2 or #3 they were 1-1/4 miles and 10-15 minutes ahead of
me if you get my point. CHP knew, CalTrans knew, hundreds of people
knew, members of the leading edge of public communications (hams, whom
I respect and admire) knew, and the system was not in place to pass the
information back down the line. Aargh! we're a bunch of technological
dummies!
Do you think KJ6CW and friends would add their opinion and support?
Would you ask them?
If a hundred of us who have been through this got together, we could
change things. There's a dozen or so of us now, mostly focusing on the
traffic control aspects, but if the hams could join us we could really
accomplish something.
--Mike
From mjbarkl Tue Jun 12. 12:06 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!PRC.Unisys.COM!darrel
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
E -x h II- . D, P!
Hi, Darrel. Thanks for Y^ note. Guts of the posting wa s follows:
---cut---
[PTITION)
---cut---
...and I was looking for comment on the wording, feasibility, etc. I've
received quite a bit.
>I missed your original proposal, but will make a couple of comments:
>CB channels 9 and 19 are already designated for activity somewhat like what
>you propose (I think).
My brother tells me it's Channel 17 up here, and one club in LA uses 14.
>You will never get the FCC to enforce more than the most blatant violations
>of the rules.
Actually I was looking for the designation. Abusers of 9 get dumped on
pretty quick, and during fog -bound white -knuckle driving I would suspect
that this sort of a' channel would approach that level of self-discipline.
One can hope, anyway.
>I would suggest that a reasonable course would be to raise money and support
>from a few CB and auto clubs for advertising and billboards on I-5 saying
>something like:
>"In heavy fog? Get on CB channel 9 to report it (and listen for fog ahead)"
That's for emergencies, though. I want to know what's going on before the
emergency and I don't think the usage would be wide -spread enough unless
there were some sort of traffic advisory plum to attract the novice
listener/observer.
Billboards along that stretch of the I -5/I-205 run $1,100 a month, with a
$3,000 minimum up -front cost. I though this would be cheaper.
Thanks for your comments. Please send more as you come up with them.
--Mike
Path: XXXXX!mbark
From: mbark@X)C=.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: ca.driving,ba.transportation,rec.ham-radio,rec.radio.shortwave,misc.emerg-sery
ices,rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <76268XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 90 19:22:31 GMT
References: <6235@uudell.dell.com>
Followup-To: 'poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: )OLM, XXXXX, CA
Lines: 39
Xref: XXXXX ca.driving:3286 ba.transportation:788 rec.ham-radio:21945 rec.radio.shortwave:
2409 mi3c.emerg-services:1089 rec.autos.driving:1518
In article <6235@uudell.dell.com>, root@ainja.dell.com (Randy Davis) writes:
> In article <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.125670presto.ig.com> meb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch
) writes:
> (I think Mike Barkley's idea of a "Traffic Advisory" channel on CB is a
> jgood one, but I don't understand the need for a fancy petition to the
>"Honorable Commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission" and
> (all the hifalutin' "We the undersigned" stuff.
Yeah, but when I address such commissions with "Hey, dudes, get off your
fannies and do this!" they seem less responsive. I would be happy to
listen to one worded with less formality by Mr. Bercl.. As long as it works_jl 0, 2
'Jll
> I'agree... 'What's wrot_ with channel 19? Last few tripe I usedd-a CB (a
>few months back), channel19still has the most traffic and most of it about
>traffic conditions, most notably police presence. I don't see how making it
>"official" will change anything. The most common user's of CB radios are the
>trucker*, and they all use 19 for traffic and general making contact with
>friends. Most conversations are taken to another channel, leaving it open for
>traffic and police information.
I don't see any problem with Channel 19, but my brother says in this area
it's Channel 17. Does 19 have some official designation?
Daniel P. Faigin's posting<FAIGIN.90Jun81331110sunstroke. aerospace. aero .org>
in ca.driving points out that:
"Well, at least here in Southern California, along the I-405 Fwy between the
San Fernando valley and LA, there is a club called Valley CB -era (a/k/a "The
Over The Hill Gang or OTHG) that exchanges traffic information using Channel
14."
"official" might help make it nationwide, and reduce some of the chatter,
not to the extremes of Channel 9, but still pretty much on the subject.
One argument I would like to see headed off is the old "who made you God"
nonsense which was why I thought an `official" designation was important.
Thank you for your comments and please send more.
--Mike
>From. portal! cup. portal. com! Duel Tue Jun 12 13:57:48 1990 remote from sun
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To: XXXXX.COM!mbark (Michael Barkley)
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
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CB Advisory channel would be very interesting and I think pretty helpful.
But do you need the FCC to officially announce it? I think it would be best
to get some current CB'ers to say "Lets make this channel....." and then
try and see how much support'you get, if.there is enough support, then it
will be worth pursuing. So basically, if i was driving along, saw an accident
that was holding up traffic, I could get onto channel xx and say to avoid
the area, right? I think that is a pretty good idea and when traffic is at
its worse, you can ccunt on the CB. But how can we get this into effect?
From uucp Tue Jun 12 18:18 EDT 1990
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>From ihlpl!waco Tue Jun 12 14:27 CDT 1990 remota from att
From: ihlpl!waco (John L Broughton +1 708 713 4319)
To: att!XXXXX.COM!mbark
Subject: Re: Call for Corcnent, CS "Traffic Advisiory Channel" petition
EX h ; �, 03
Mark,
I did not read your original posting to rec.ham-radio as I usually
avoid any CB postings. I did, however, read your answer to Ken
Hendrickson's (N8DGN/6) flame. From that I got the general idea of
what you had proposed.
Here are a few of my thoughts on the general idea as to why they
won't work. I think your idea is sound, but doubt there is any way
to implement any kind of individual radio solution.
1. The FCC is degregulating radio services. Don't expect them to
be receptive to creating new services, rules. They don't care
to address widespread blatant violation of amateur rules at
present; one response has been to ask the American Radio Relay
League what it is going to do about illegal -third party traffic
on the amateur bands. The FCC doesn't want to enforce its own
rules.
2. Everyone on the freeway will never buy a radio, CS or other kind.
This negates the purpose of your idea.
3. Assuming everyone had a CB and had it tuned to the weather
advisory channel, many jerks would not pay attention anyway.
4. Having seen CB degenerate a number of years ago, just before I
got my amateur license, I truly believe CB serves no useful
purpose; it used to, however.
I hate driving in fog. I have seen the result of chain reaction
accidents on expressways. My best advice is to do what I do when
I encounter fog on a limited -access highway; SLOW DOWN, KEEP YOUR
EYES OPEN AND GET OFF ON.THE FIRST EXIT YOU COME TO.
This is not meant to be a flame, just my personal opinion. I hope
you get useful suggestions on how to petition the FCC, just don't expect
much in the way of help from them. Your idea is not without merit.
John L. Broughton WB9VGJ
AT&T Bell Laboratories
1200 E. Warrenville Road
Naperville, IL 60566-7045
(708) 713-4319
john.l.broughton8att.com
attljohn.l.broughton
From mjbarkl Wed Jun 13 12:06 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!att!ihlpl!waco
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel' petition
Hi, John. Thanks for your note.
>I did not read your original posting to rec.hart-radio as I usually
>avoid any CB postings.
Guts of the posting was as follows:
---cut---
(PETITION)
---cut---
.and I was looking for conunent on the wording, feasibility, etc. I've
� �\
received quite a bit. r= 1.4
> 1. The FCC is degregui ing radio services." Don't expe-_ them to-
> be receptive to creating new services, rules. They don't care
> to address widespread blatant violation of amateur rules at
> present; one response has been to ask the American Radio Relay
> League what it is going to do about illegal third party traffic
> on the amateur bands. The FCC doesn't want to enforce its own
> rules.
That's what I've been hearing. Yet I was hoping that merely the designation
of a channel would be followed by the kind of support REACT has maintained
for channel 9 and the self-discipline that does seem to govern the use
people make of that channel now.
> 2. Everyone on the freeway will never buy a radio, CB or other kind.
> _ This negates the purpose of your idea.
I'm not -so sure. Driving in Central Valley tule fog is such a white -knuckle
experience that it might catch on. But I wasn't necessarily looking for
unanimous subscription. I am as happy to listen to the current CB
community in the fog (especially truckers), but would like their buy -in
on a nationwide channel designation which I don't think I could get without
a general designation from the FCC.
> 3. Assuming everyone had a CB and had it tuned to the weather
> advisory channel, many jerks would not pay attention anyway.
"Traffic Advisory" not "weather advisory", although weather is a factor.
And if we had one, monitored, one of the messages I would broadcast
would include descriptions of vehicles being driven in such a fashion
as to be a deadly threat to those down the road (you know, the "many
jerks").
> 4. Having seen CS degenerate a.number of years ago, just before I
> got my amateur license, I truly believe CB serves no useful
> purpose; it used to, however.
Regrettably true, but at this point I'm reaching for what I can get
just to live through next winter's fog season.
> I hate driving in fog. I have seen the result of chain reaction
> accidents on expressways. My best advice is to do what I do when
> I encounter fog on a limited -access highway; SLOW DOWN, KEEP YOUR
> EYES OPEN AND GET OFF ON THE FIRST EXIT YOU COME TO.
You are, of course, correct. But good ol'XXXXX doesn't want me
taking 20-30 days off every winter on accounts fog. So I'm looking
to make it safer until we all get coordinated proximity and speed control
systems.
Thank you. Please send more comments.
--Mike
>From cod.nosc.mil!medin Tue Jun 12 17:23:54 1990 remote from ns.XXXXX.COM
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From: medin@cod.nosc.mil (Ted Medin)
Message -Id: <9006130023.AA03362@cod.nosc.mil>
To: mbark@XXXXX.COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ca. driving, ba. tran3portation,cuac.emerg-3ery
-ices,rec.autos.driving l
In -Reply -To: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> �X n��► �� �,�5
References: <7605@XXXXX.X)FJKC.CON> <25212@usc.edu>
"Organization: Naval Ocean stems Center, San Diego
Cc:
Congratulations you handled the flans well and your point is well taken,
keep up the good work.
73, ted
n6trf
From cs.unc.edu!hardarso Wed Jun 13 06:33:42 1990 remote from ns.XMx)QC.00M
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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 90 09:32:42 -0400
From: Kari Hardarson <hardarso@cs.unc.edu>
Message -Id: <9006131332.AA06932@weis3.c3.unc.edu>
To: mbark@)CO=.COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Newsgroups: ca. driving, ba. transportation, rec. ham-radio,rec. radio. shortwave, misc. emerg-sere
ices,rec.aUtos.driving
In -Reply -To: <76266XXXXX.XX3XX.CCM>
References: <6235@uude1l.dell.com>
Organization: University Of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Cc:
You made me curious.. Could you post me the frequency for channel 19, that
is, if you have it somewhere? I have one of those Sony 7600 radios...
Thanks,
Kari
Kari Hardarson T'was brillyg and the slithy toves
217 Jackson Circle j did gyre and gimble in the wabe...
27514 Chapel Hill, NC
From mjbarkl Wed Juni 13 12:25 PDT 1990
To: XXXXXlmerit.mene.org!currituck.es.unc.edu!weirs.cs.une.edu!hardarso@cs.unc.edu
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
You wrote,
> You made me curious.. Could you post me the frequency for channel 19, that
> is, if you have it somewhere? I have one of those Sony 7600 radios...
> Thanks,
> Kari
Ah, er, I'm afraid you've caught me on this one. All I know is that when
I buy a CD from radio shack and I click the knob over to channel 19, there
it is. I could ask my (smarter) brother JK6R00, walnut Creek) if you like,
or I'm surz you: local radio shack dealer will tell you.
--blike
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s!risky!pa3e60!rbirch
From: rbirch@pase60.Convergent. Com (Robert Birch)
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. shortwave, ca.driving, ba. transportation �" ��\\
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition �( Y11,�' li V� P
Message-ID: <1079risky. Cor-"^cgent.COtC>
Date: 12 Jun 90 20:55:55 G
References: <7605@X3GCXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@X)D=.XCC.0(,COM>
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Reply-To: rbirch@pase60.UUCP (Robert Birch)
Distribution: usa
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:790
In article <76179X0GSX3C.XXXXX.COt> mbarkeX)GCXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
>Over the past two years I have been in the middle of multiple-vehicle
>ehain-reaction collisions in the fog in the San Joaquin Valley. On
>12/18/89 the pileups totaled some 60 vehicles, sent 30 people to the
>hospital, and one to the morgue - the guy who died was less than a
>hundred yards behind me. On 12/14/88 the pileups totaled 30 vehicles,
>sent 29 people to the hospital, and one to the morgue - this guy was
>also less than a hundred yards behind me. On 12/18/89 I watched a
>car climb over another one two cars behind me, and burst into flames.
>1 watched a half dozen individual collisions next to me on I-5 and
>heard another half dozen back in the fog.
> I had hoped that as in interim measure, CB could help. On
>12/18/89 there were many large trucks involved, some jackknifed, one
>flipped completely over on its back (he was cited, but not for the
>manslaughter that resulted), and so on. The collisions had
>gone on for some 10 to 15 minutes before I arrived on the scene. I
>was doing 30-35 mph (scared out of my wits) and barely had time to stop.
>It seems that CB might be the best way to get the warnings out to the
>truckers and others with CB radios to furnish this warning of the
>obstruction ahead, and reduce the piling on that follows such initial
>collisions.
> But without sorae sort of channel specified for 'traffic
>advisory-, accompanied by self-discipline of the users, I doubt
>that it would work. I know of no way to get a consensus among CB
>users to agree on rulemaking without the FCC intervening and doing
>for the community.
O.K., in my original reply, i had assumed you were just worried about
your rush-hour commute. i appologize.
i remember one year our church was on the way home from a ski trip
on New Year's Eve. We were eastbound on I-40 in western Oklahoma,
and a carload of westbound party'ers had driven int- the median and
overturned in the middle of our side of the interstate. It was 3:00am
and pitch dark, with no lights for miles. There were bodies and beer
bottles strewn all over.the road. A truck driver who had seen it happen
warned us over the radio (channel 19). We ftopped, put out flares,
directed traffic, and waited for the Highway Patrol to arrive. If it
hadn't been for the trucker on 19, we would have driven the bus right
over the middle of it.
The ad-hoc road channel is where traffic advisory info would be the
most widely recieved, but you still have the problem that not many
automobiles have radios. (i do, but i lived in California for three
years before i heard that the road channel in Northern CA was 17. It
took another couple of months listening to 17 - about 3 trips to LA -
before i heard that the road channel in Southern CA was 15. i never
would have found out, had i not driven through He•.rada on the :gay to
Mammoth Lake3 and heard people talking about it or. 19.)
The channel is already there; what we need is a little more publicity. k`_ jj
(Maybe a lot); CB's are cheap enough these days; more people may have C-,/C ,bU ^ l7
� F'
them if they were to realm '.their usefulness on the highwa.
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irch
From: rbirch@pase60.Convergent.Com (Robert Birch)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <103@risky.Convergent.Com>
Date: 12 Jun 90 20:15:41 GMT
References: <7606@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <Jun.8.11.15.07.1990.12567@presto.ig.ca-u>
Sender: root@risky.Convergent.COM
Reply -To: rbirch@pa3e60.UUCP (Robert Birch)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unisys Network Computing Group (CT), San Jose, CA
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In article <Jun.8.11.15.0'7.1990.12567@presto.ig.com> mr_b@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
writes:
>I think Mike Barkley's idea of a "Traffic Advisory" channel on CB is a
>good one, but ...
>The *worst* thing to do is to get
wnwAAwwwAAwwwwwAwwwAAwAAwwwwwwwww
>the government involved;
A AwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AMEN!
>
>I haven't paid any particular attention to CB in the last 10 years or
Exactly... while CB's enjoyed tremendous popularity a few years ago,
i don't see many four -wheelers on the highway with a radio.
With the commuter traffic in the city, i will bet the number is very
nearly zero.
If the goal is a traffic advisory channel to ease the flow of
commuter traffic, we need a full-time traffic AM radio station.
Instead of petitioning the FCC, perhaps we should petition the
local news stations to devote a little more time to traffic -
suggesting alternate routes, and being much more thourough with
their problem reporting.
The general public does not benefit from Citizens' Band, and with
the large number of recent immigrants in the Bay area, many do
not even know what a CB is (this is certainly true of people who
ride in my car :-)
If you want useful road info, why don't you just try the road
channel...
>so, but my understanding is that each of the long-haul interstates
>still have CB channels informally associated with them, and that
>truckers still make extensive use of this to exchange road condition
>information.
- Channel 15 for Southern California
- Channel 17 for Northern California
- Channel 19 for the rest of the nation.
(Why is California so weird? :-)
-rdb
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX'XXXXX.coralames!lll-w.irjcenluunet!fernwood!lia!erc
From: erc@lia (Ed Carp)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition ((--
Summary: true, but long ago... c X �l� t r i1t €J U
Message -ID: <1990Jun12.195^ .29470@lia>
Date: 12 Jun 90 19:56:58 G.__
References: <7605@)Co=.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <76178XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Reply -To: erc@lia.com (Ed Carp)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Litton Integrated Automation - Alameda, CA
Lines: 28
>In article <25212@usc.edu>, kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
>> Pardon my bad attitude, but who the h*11 cares about that spectrum
>> anymore? Take your petition elsewhere. A few hams on here are old
>> enough to remember when the band was _stolen_ from us. The only
>> petition we're likely to support is a petition to return those
>> frequencies to the amateur service.
>> Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/6 kjh@usc.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollue!kjh
Well, that's true. I remember reading about that. Back in the 601s, wasn't it?
I remember Kayne Green writing about it in Electronics Illustrated. Remember
that mag? That was before he started 73 magazine.
I even have lI meters on my FT -101. Not that I use it - I'm a 10 and 2 meter
fan, myself. I remember the brouhaha when the FCC "stole" 11 meters - bowing
to pressure from the EIA and the "CB lobby". But that's long ago - and about
as helpful as bellyaching over incentive licensing.
on the original petition, I believe that cellular phone service will render
the suggestion (good as it is) obaelete. It might be helpful to establish
a statewide number one could call. This number would give you road conditions
and weather information depending on which cell you were in.
Ed Carp - N7EKG/6 ercwork@khijol (work) (415) 769-5435/5400
erctkhijol (home) (415) 5.23-0528
"Let's find a little house in a valley, where the sun's always smiling,
The perfect place for you and me -- miles away." -- Basia
From uucp Wed Jun 13 13:33 EDT 1990
>From uucp Wed Jun 13 10:35 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From wyse!wyse.com!stevew Wed Jun 13 09:56:52 1990 remote from mips
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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 90 09:26:48 PDT
Trom: mips!wyse.comistevew (Steve Wilson x2580 dept303)
Message -Id: <9006131626.AA22568@vyse.wyse.com>
To: mipslwyse.com!stevew, mipslXXXXX!pbcast!mjbarkl
Subject: Re: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" in the Fog
.41 Mike,
As I said earlier, hams have a decade's long bias to overcome. The
CB service could be the cleanest thing since sliced bread and hams,
would still take 2 decades to change their collective minds on
the subject.
Also to be honest I don't. thank there is a quick fix solution.....
Give you an example of how great the Freeway notification system
.is down in LA. I ran into it twice this weekend .... I had to
get from San Pedro(LA harbor district) up to the Burbank airport.
I gave myself 2 hours cuz I like to relax once I get through all
the *(6^*^ of checking in the rental car, etc. I saw the sign
saying "Traffic Jam Ahead"...thats it. 1 minute latter I'm stuck
in a 30 minute slow down(should have taken 3 minutes to get through..)
at the harbor freeway in downtown LA. Cal trans was doing some road t
work and screwing up traffic. Got out of that and was being
thankful of having alotted.r—self 2 hours for this little trLxk.
I just lost 1/2 my margin . error "and had NOIDEA how long
it was going to take to get rid of the rental car, etc. Next
traffic alert system says "traffic jam - 134 on ramps closed."
Now I grew up in Glendale, CA where this offramp is so I figured
If I got into trouble again I could get off the freeway and
take the appropriate surface streets ... THEY HAD THOSE BLOCKED OFF
FOR NO GOOD REASON TOO! I made the plane, but with about 2 minutes
to spare before they started boarding. Geesssssssh!
Let me make the following points:
1) You need to distribute accurate/up-to-date information. This
is just about impossible. Even the CHP dispatchers don't knwo
whats going on. Your best defense in the metro areas seems
to be listening to AM radio to stations that have traffic reports.
2) A new radio service of any sort probably ISN'T necessary. What
might be a better system is to talk one of the valley radio
stations into doing road situation reports every 10-15 minutes
AND some how let the public know which station to listen too.
I found the LA traffic reports(which I wasn't listening too like a
fool) to be better information than the traffic signs. As for
drivers letting each other know via radio .... there is a big
difference between someone Who picks up a mike for the first
time and someone who makes radio a hobby like hams. What you
typically hear on CB other than Ch 9 is the first of these
two types, Ch 9 has the latter. It actual takes some study,
and some discipline to know how to talk on a radio correctly
and efficiently .... I've actually written a manual on the subject
so ... I personally don't think that a r_ew radio service any major
form would fix the problem .... maybe work within the structure
that already exists seems to be a better solution. Almost
all vehicles have am/fm, not 27 mhz as an example.
Hope that helps some...
Steve Wilson, KA6S
From mjbarkl Wed Jun 13 18:15 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!wyse!wise.com!stevew
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" in the Fog
Hi, Steve:
> Let me make the following points:
> 1) You need to distribute accurate/up-to-date information. This
> is just about impossible. Even the CHP dispatchers don't knwo
> whats going on. Your best defense in the metro areas seems
> to be listening to AM radio to stations that have traffic reports.
I usually listen to KCBS during my conmutes. They are OK unless I
want information. For their coverage of the fast-growing
commute over the Altamont, they routinely run a half-hour behind
the events, occasionally even get the direction obstructed wrong
(grr.), and so on. On 12/18/89 the pileup had gone on for 10 minutes
or more before I even got to it. And I was 10 minutes out of it (using
back roads I don't Tell most people about) before I heard the first
comment on KCBS. Their comment was something like "We're hearing from
people in the fog out there in San Joaquin County. It's like a war
zone out there. Please slow down and take it easy," or some such.
Irresponsibly vague.
What I wanted to hear, wit -`4i moments of the first impacts,,. -ere the
cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUT1 JND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR I AT
MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP." Which was the truth. A CHP
override on some sort oADwidely-monitored channel really seems to me to be
the hope for the future. I understand that in Germany, such an automatic
emergency override is built into car radios to permit such a broadcast
on all channels, but here I was seeking something fast, cheap, ard.easy
even if it isn't perfect. Hence, CB.
>2) A new radio service of any sort probably ISN'T necessary. What
> might be a better system is to talk one of the valley radio
> stations into doing road situation reports every 10-15 minutes
> AND some how let the public know which station to listen too.
A lot can happen in'10-15 minutes. And getting the info second-
hand adds distortions as well. Commercial radio just doesn't seem
to satisfy the need for rapid, accurate information. Your points about
the LA sign systems are well -taken, and they suffer from the same
2nd -party delay problems. I sent a note to the fellow from the
Valley CB'ers about their OTHC use of Channel 14 on I-405 to get
some more details - maybe they're actually making it work. Of course,
nothing will help with the Harbor Freeway/Hollywood Feeway mess
unless people broadcast the unusual times when they are UN -obstructed.
>I found the LA traffic reports(which I wasn't listening too like a
>fool) to be better information than the traffic signs.
KNX seemed to be pretty good.
>As for
>drivers letting each other know via radio .... there is a big
>difference between someone who picks up a mike'for the first
>time and someone who makes radio a hobby like hams. What you
>typically hear on CB other than Ch 9 is the first of these
>two types, Ch 9 has the latter. It actual takes some study,
>and some discipline to know how to talk on a radio correctly
>and efficiently .... I've actually written a manual on the subject
>so ... I personally don't think that a new radio service any major
>form would fix the problem.... maybe work within the structure
>that already exists seems to be a better solution.
Mostly I want to listen, not talk. I got tired of the usual
CB BS 15 years ago. If there were a way to increase the wheat -to -
chaff ratio it might take off. Even doomed to failure, it would
be better than what we've got in the fog.
>Hope that helps some...
Yep. Thanks. If I get all the reasons why it won't work off the
net, then by the time to go public I should have all my ducks in a
row. From what I've been hearing, it's actually working now on
a limited basis, on various channels, in various locations. Now
I would like to see it strengthened.
--Mike
From Son.COM!tjonz Wed Jun 13 11:21:17 1990 remote from ns.XXXXX.COM
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Date: Wed, 13 Jun 90 11:16:16 PDT
From: tjonz@Sun.COM (Todd Jonz)
Message -Id: <9006131816.AA00973@caliban.ortort>
To: mbark@XXXXX.COM
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Mike,
I am personally embarrassed by the hostile reactions you have received
in response to your recent posting to rec.ham-radio. Some of my brethern seem
to have a severe need to feel superior to someone, and a great deal of their
energy is spent denegrating the folks who use the 11 meter band. On behalf of
those hams who are not flaming idiots, please accept my apology for the
behavior of those with fewer mental faculties.
As to your request for comments, I'm afraid my opinion won't be very
encouraging. As far as I can tell, your petition is a request to the FCC to
regulate. This is something that the Commission has been very hesitant to do
in recent times, especially in light of the deregulatory trends during the
Reagan years. There have been specific issues on the ham bands where the FCC
had the right to take certain actions and chose not to do so, in spite of some
encouragement from parts of the ham community encouraging them to exercise
their *responsibility* in these area. In my opinion, the just don't have the
bucks for this sort of thing, and it's unlikely that they will in the future.
Asking for regulation on the Citizen's Band would seem to me to be even
more difficult. The CB boom of the 7013 is still too fresh in the FCC's
memory, and it's my guess that they will be very hesitant to take any action.
What's more, if such a measure were adopted, it would likely increase the need
for enforcement, and that take *real* money that the Commission just doesn't
have.
While I applaud your motivation in this, I would have to consider its
acceptance a longshot. Good luck nonetheless, and I hope you'll post any
future developments to the net.
-- KB 6JXT, Todd
Path: XXXXX!XXXXV X>D=.com!mips! apple! usc!uesd!sdd.hp. com!samsung!dali.cs.montana.edu!ogi
cse!emory!rsiatl!nanovx!ke4zv!gary
From: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. autos. driving, misc. emerg-services
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <326@ke4zv.U*JCP>
Date: 12 Jun 90 23:47:40 GMT
Reply -To: gary@ke4zv.WCP (Gary Coffman)
Followup-To: rec-ham-radio
Distribution: usa
Organization: none
Lines: 57
Xref: XXXXX rec.ham-radio:21971 rec. autos. driving: 1535 misc. emerg-:ervices:1090
In article <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
>It seems that CB might be the best way to get the warnings out to the
>truckers and others with CB radios to furnish this warning of the
>obstruction ahead, and reduce the piling on that follows such initial
>colli.9ions. It might also be one of the best ways to gain consensus
>among motorists in the fog on what the maximum safe speed is, including
>from that "Pic'n Save" big rig engaged in a 70 mph speed contest with a
>jacked -up 4wd pickup in 40 mph fog westbound on SR 120 at Airport Way at
>8:15 a.m. on 12/20/89. For instance. G fl
> (Beyond that, I we : look forward to the day when ould be
>able to gain advance notice of traffic tie-ups, know specifically
>where the other end of the jam is, and what caused it, and more
>efficiently select an alternate route.)
> But without some sort of channel specified for "traffic
>advisory", accompanied by self-discipline of the users, I doubt,
>that it would work. I know of no way to get a consensus among CB
>users to agree on rulemaking without the FCC intervening and doing
>for the community.
> How about it, hams? Is this idea worth your support? Can
>you help?
The key problem with this idea is getting the necessary self-discipline
from the users. Originally channel 19 was the traffic channel used to
report "road hazards" (mostly radar speed traps) that were created by
the 55 mph speed limit. This worked well for about a year until CB
gained popularity due to some bad movies. Then the pseudo -rednecks
and the hookers moved in and lade it useless. The mess became so bad
that the FCC gave up in disgust and even quit licensing the users
since enforcement resources are so small and noncompliance with the
rules was so overwhelming. FCC enforcement resources are even smaller
today than when this occurred so it is highly unlikely that the FCC
will revisit this area of the spectrum. In fact the FCC does see a
need for personal emergency services and has proposed to STEAL yet
another HAM BAND (220 Mhz) for a service called PELTS (Personal
Emergency Locator) among other things. The advantage as they see it is
that No VOICE equipment will be allowed and automatic identification
will be required. This would tend to discourage the pseudo -rednecks.
Unfortunately the lack of interaction also promises to make the service
unpopular enough with the masses that not enough units would be installed
to be useful.
Any proposal must address the twin problems of wide availability
coupled with strong discipine amongst the user base. Amateur radio
has the discipline (mostly :-() and coverage. Unfortunately it no longer
has the mass appeal necessary to make this service work. CB has the
mass appeal, but as explained above, doesn't have now, nor is likely to
have in the future, the discipline necessary for your proposed service.
There are, unfortunately, enough people who will make obnoxious fools
of themselves when cloaked by the twin anonymity of automobiles and
radio to insure the failure of the proposal.
This is too bad as your idea has merit.
Gary KE4ZV
Path: XXXXX!XXXAX!XXXXX.com!ames!think!linus!saint!lewis
From: lewis@saint (Keith Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <110768@linus.mitre.org>
Date: 13 Jun 90 14:55:40 GMT
References: <6235@uudell. dell. com> <76268XXXXX.XXXXX.00M>
Sender: usenet@linus.mitre.org
Reply -To: lewis@saint.UUCP (Keith Lewis)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Lines: 23
In article <7626@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> rrbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
>I don't see any problem with Channel 19, but my brother says in this area�ki �'} 1
>it's Channel 17. Does IS`Nve some official designation?
The only channel with any official_ designation is 9, the emergency channel.
19 is known among long haul truck drivers (nationwide, I believe) as _the_
channel to listen on. If you see a truck coming the other way,
and you wish to greet hiss, chances are he'll be tuned to 19.
In different local areas, there are "local" channels that different groups
of local people use.
Low-power walkie-talkies are usually set to 14. I think it may have been
designated at one time as the frequency you don't need a licence to use at
low power. Yea, I agree that at 4-8 W, all CB's are low power, but those
walkie-talkies were a lot less (100 mW or so).
- - - - Keith Lewis - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - -
lewis@saint.mitre.org, klewis@mitre.arpa, (703)883-5873
"Sometimes I think (love and sex] are completely different. Sex alleviates
tension; love causes it." - Woody Allen
Path: XXXXX!3C0=!XXXXX.com!aures! rex! samsung!uunet! zephyr. ens. tek.com!vice! georgep
From: georgep@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (George Pell)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, Ca "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <51980vice.ICO.TEK.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 90 17:07:34 GMT
References: <3268ke4zv.UUCP>
Reply -To: georgep@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (George Pell)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
Lines: 15
In article <326Qke4zv.UUCP> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
+.... revisit this area of the spectrum. In fact the FCC does see a
+need for personal emergency services and has proposed to STEAL yet
+another HAM BAND (220 Mhz) for a service called PELTS (Personal
+Emergency Locator) among other things. The advantage as they see it is
+that NO VOICE equipment will be allowed and automatic identification
+will be required. This would tend to.discourage the pseudo -rednecks.
You have this backwards. UPS already stole the 220 Mhz band. A
Portland, Ore. HAM. proposed PELTS, which was approved, and he 'STOLE'
one of the 220 P*.hz frequencies back from UPS.
geo
y- 1
From mjbarkl Mon Jun 11'14 , PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!ames!ucsd!usc!aero!faigin
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
You were saying,
<> Well, at least here in Southern California, along the i-405 Fwy between the
<> San Fernando Valley and LA, there is a club called Valley CB-ers (a/k/a "The
<> Over The Hill Gang or OTHG) that exchanges traffic information using Channel
<> 14.
I-405 certainly needs it! Whew! I don't get down there much, but
bumper -to -bumper 10 lanes across at midnight is mind-boggling and if
anybody sneezes everybody has to stop and start over again.
I understand the truckers use Channel 17 up here.
Did you have to muscle your way into Channel 14, or did it just grow?
How do you enforce channel discipline and does it"work?
Do you share info with KNX (or whatever that station is with the
"deet-deet-deet-doot-doot" "deet-deet-doot-doot-loot" traffic alert alert
that infests my nightmares)?
Does your traffic info exchange help?
--Mike
Path: XXXXX!XXXXXIXXXXX.com!mips!apple!snorkelwacker!spdce!merk!alliant!muller
From: mullerQAlliant.COM (Jim Muller)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CS "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition.
Message -ID: <3915Qalliant.Alliant.00M>
Date: 13 Jun 90 18:05:09 GMT
References: <326Qke4zv.17UCP>
Reply -To: muller9alliant.Alliant.COM (Jim Muller)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems, Littleton, MA
Lines: 50
In article <326Qke4zv.UUCP> garyQke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>... Originally channel 19 was the traffic channel used to
>report "road hazards" (mostly radar speed traps) that were created by
>the 55 mph speed limit. This worked well for about a year...
I first started using a CB radio in, oh, about 1973. Back then when
truckers started using CB (possibly organized by but probably *not*
officially sanctioned by the Teamsters Union) (i.e. "originally"), the
prefered channel for road communication was 10, not 19, and the FCC
allowed for only 23 channels but 5 watts. Rules allowed for only a few
channels (something like 9-11, and 19-23, but I really don't remember)
to be used between units not registered under the same license (i.e.
mobile extensions of one licensed base station). Channel 9 was used
for emergency calls, but I can't really remember when this protocol
came about, nor was I ever involved in any organizations that tried
to manage such things. Courtesy was common, since most users originally
got involved as hobbyists, and profanity was actively discouraged(!).
Popularity grew dramatically in response to the 55 mph limit_ The
technology grew too, with some trucks carrying multi -hundred -watt
transmitters that let them carry on their own long-distance converstions
by overpowering other players. Eventually, the average distance you
could carry on a conversar-L9n (on the east coast during a bilsy weekend)
was limited by the averag 3.stance between people trying t :alk at the
same time. Sometime in the mid-to-late 70's, the FCC incre.3ed the number
of channels to 40 and dropped the maximum power to, let's see, I think
maybe 4 watts at the set, 3 watts from the antenna (or something like
that; I'm not an e.e. so I don't know the standards of how antenna power
is rated). About this time, automotive use was switched over to channel
19, though I don't know how this was done. (I was a graduate student,
and spending less time on the road.) The motivation was to remove the
volume away a channel adjacent to the supposed emergency channel 9. The
volume did indeed become so great that many people on the road stopped
using their radios. Profanity became commonplace as a natural result of
the broadening population of users. There was also a significant increase
in sunspot activity (a regular phenomenon) at one time then, which made
AM transmission (including CB) difficult. The combination of excessive
volume and profanity, -lack of public interest (and maybe acceptance such
as it was of the 55 mph limit), and poor transmission quality, was enough
to create major disenchantment among people who had been active user before.
Today, it appears that (with the exception of the higher profanity level)
CB use is about like it used to be back in 1973. Maybe my antenna is busted.
As for people using channel 19 for an automotive advisory channel, that is
really up to the users. CB clubs used to, and maybe still do, maintain
some semblance of organization. But it's the guys on the road who have to
create and maintain their own support group, by the simplicity of protocol.
- Jim Muller
Path: XXXXXfmbark
From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: ca.driving,ba.transportation,misc.emera-services,rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-rad
io,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7645@XXXXX.XJC�QQ{.00M>
Date: 14 Jun 90 19:49:03 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.xxxXX.00M> <1990Junl2.19565
8.29470@lia>
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: XXX.VA, XXXXX, CA
L --nes: 87
Xref: XXXXX ca.driving:3319 ba.transportation:793 misc.emerg-services:1092 rec.autos.drivi
ng:1587 rec.ham-radio:22003 rec.radio.shortwave:2434
In article <1990Jun12.195658.29470@lia>, erc@lia (Ed Carp) writes:
> On the original petition, I believe that cellular phone service will render
> the suggestion (good as it is) obselete. It might be helpful to establish
> a statewide number one could call. This number would give you road conditions
> and weather information depending on which cell you were in.
weather conditions I usually get from AM Ox. It's road hazards that interest
me.
I have several problems with cellular as a method of advising motorists of
conditions ahead:
1) It's not fast enough. The person observing the problem needs
to pick up his phone and dial somebody. That's time. The person receiving
the call has to assimilate the information and make it available to those
seeking it. That's time. And the people seeking it have to call or be
called. That's time.
2) The info is filtered unless everybody calls everybody else,
an interesting mental picture. in the process, info gets generalized_
3) Even if CB is _ int -to -point, the rest of us ca.. eavesdrop
on the conversation and hear about the problem as it is reported. No
additional rigamarole to get clued in.
4) it's expensive. I understand about a buck a minute, plus
toll charges or some such. During the annual white -knuckle driving
fog days, would a person spend an hour or two on the cellular listening
for clues? Then you've just paid for an adequate CB rig.
One gentleman suggested that commercial radio would be more
appropriate. It fails for similar reasons. I usually listen to KCBS
during my commutes. They are OK unless I want information. For their
coverage of the fast-growing commute over the Altamont, they routinely run
a half-hour behind the events, occasionally even get the obstructed
direction wrong (grr.), and so on. On 12/18/89 the pileup had gone on for
10 minutes or more before I even got to it. And I was 10 minutes out of it
(using back roads I don't tell most people about) before I heard the first
comment on KCBS. Their comment was something like "We're hearing from
people in the fog out there in San Joaquin County. It's like a war
zone out there. Please slow down and take it easy," or some such.
Irresponsibly vague! And the guy two cars in front of me was on
the.cellular immediately.
What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 ,MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP." Which was the truth. A CHP
override on some sort of widely -monitored channel really seems to me to be
the hope for the future. I understand that in Germany, such an automatic
emergency override is built into car radios to permit such a broadcast
on all channels, but here I was seeking something fast, cheap, and easy
even if it isn't perfect. Hence, CB.
KCBS has an arrangement with GTE Mobilnet that anyone may enter
STAR -CBS (*227) and connect immediately with their traffic
people, free. It helps. They get a lot of reports that way. But it's
still not good enough. It's too vague, it's often wrong, and it's usually
delayed. For instance, this morning they reported a jack-knifed truck
westbound on I-580 at I-680 and another accident westbound at Fallon
Road. I think they were a half hour late in the first report. What I
wanted to hear was how many yards back from the I-680 exit it was,
how many lanes were blocked if any, what speed was the traffic
travelling past that point, and how far did it backup. It's
gotten so that if I even hear a report on KCBS, unless they say that
all lanes are blocked and CHP has closed the road, I automatically
assume that the problem is already cured. That's almost always the
case. Useless, useless, useless!
Perhaps cellular will help the news feeds more as time goes
on but it doesn't satisfy what I'm looking for, prompt, first-hand
information, subject to questioning.
Thanks for your posting(s). I may submit all of them to my
(indifferent) Assemblyman if I can get a better nibble out of him on
this proposal than I did on the other fog proposals. If not, well
his opponent in November is a CHP officer who works those tog
pileups. Unfortunately, he's one of them thar Republicans. Sigh.
--Mike
(this is probably not my employer's opinion) J (n�
From uucp Fri Jun 15 11:51 '_'T 1990
>From uucp Fri Jun 15 08:5_ LIT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From darrelj Fri Jun 15 08:40:47 1990 remote from culv.unisys.com
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 08:37:33 PDT
From: darrelj@culv.unisys.com (Darrel vanBuer)
Message -Id: <9006151537.AA03646@sea.culv.unisys.com>
To: XXXXX!XX'.C'.A!rajbarkl
Subject: Re: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
One angle on billboards: carriers of advertising mostly do moderate amounts of pro bono,
public service announcements (as do radio and TV), so that with an appropriate non-profit
group you might make the pool of free ads (which tend to get run when no paying ad is avai
lable) .
From uucp Fri Jun 15 11:51 EDT 1990
>From uucp Fri Jun 15 08:54 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From darrelj Fri Jun 15 08:49:22 1990 remote from culv.unisys.com
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 08:46:12 PDT
From: darrelj2culv.uni3y3.com (Darrel VanBuer)
Message -Id: <9006151546.AA03650@sea.culv.uni3y3.com>
To: Y -'O CX!XXXXX!mjbarkl
Subject: Re: CB *Traffic Advisory Channel* petition
By the way, I think that a dense Tule fog on I-5 does constitute an emergency
worth using channel 9 for, since it represents inherently unsafe driving
conditions (unlike for example road closed due to construction in good
visibility, which would of course be useful traffic advisory).
Has anyone sent you the format for an FCC petition yet? If not, I probably have
it in my files from some of the earlier ham issues before the FCC.
Darrel
From mjbarkl Fri Jun 15 09:45 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!darrelj@culv.unisys.com
Subject: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
> By the way, I think that a dense Tule fog on I-5 does constitute an
> emergency worth using channel 9 for, since it represents inherently
> unsafe driving conditions (unlike for example road cl-ased due to
> construction in good visibility, which would of course be useful traffic
> advisory).
I would think it's an "emergency" also, but I remember the tales I've heard
over the years about people reporting stalls in dangerous locations along
the freeways where the victim obviously needed help, only to get dumped on
by CHP or whomever monitors Channel 9 for abusing it. I think we had 40
to 50 days of that up -to -400 -mile fog bank this past winter, and I
personally experienced a dozen days where 40 mph was too fast (and one where
15 -mph was excessive!), but once it goes on for that long it kind of pushes
the definition to call it an "emergency". Channel 9 does not meet my needs
for this kind of information partly because it's so seldom used, and I don't
think I am alone in finding 9 pretty much useless (sorry REACT). Once the
collisions occur, of course, it's a Channel 9 emergency, but who's listen.i:lg? i N
Kn�-JG�}7
Speaking personally, I woub-mot buy a CB to listen to dead' -'L on Channel 9,
but I would buy 3 of them z 3 cars) ASAP for a traffic aL sory channel.
> Has anyone sent yoti.•the y or an FCC petition yet? If not, I probably
> have it in my fil@s_'fr _the earlier ham issues before the FCC.
If you could mail me one,.%'r"be_.vpry grateful- There are just somethings
you can't get out of a law library no matter how good the library is (and
at Stockton, it's lousy). I'm at ".like Barkley, 161 N. Sheridan Ave. #1,
Manteca, CA 95336 209/823-4817". Thanks a bunch.
--Mike
From mjbarkl Fri Jun 15 10:04 PDT 1990
To: XXXXX!darrelj@culv.unisys.com
Subject: CS "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Hello, again, Darrel:
Here I am, again, not paying attention to who sends what mail which
is why I'm sending two notes....
> One angle on billboards: carriers of advertising mostly do moderate
> amounts of pro bono, public service announcements (as do radio and TV),
> so that with an appropriate non-profit group you might make the pool of
> free ads (which tend to get run when no paying ad is available).
Actually, if a traffic advisory channel were set up, I was hoping to hit
up those guys (including the CB radio industry) for exactly that thing.
But if one is not set up, I think the issue of whether or not fog is an
emergency condition would get in the way of obtaining the space. And I
really would hate to see a campaign for one year forgotten in subsequent
years because Channel 9 is still "dead air".
--Mike
Path: XXXXX!X)C<XX!XXXXX.com!mips!prls!philabs!briar!rfe
From: rfc@briar.Philips.Com (Robert Casey)
Newsgroups: ree.ham-radio,ree.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <99078@philabs.Philips Com>
Date: 14 Jun 90 01:34:50 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@xxxxx.XXXXX.com>
Sender: news@philabs.Philips.Com
Reply -To: rfc(briar.philips.com.UUCP (Robert Casey)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY
Lines: 6
Xref: XXXXX rec.ham-radi.o:22012 rec.radio.shortwave:2442
Seems to me that they don't really need to use radio to warn people of bad
road conditions. Strategically placed flashing warning signs should do it, and
all drivers will see them. !caving warnings on radio (CB, whatever) won't help
drivecs without the proper radio tuned to the proper frequency.
73 de 0A215E
Path:;(XXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!ames!ncar!midway!uxl.cso.uiuc.edu!uxl.cso.uiuc.edu!phil
From: phil@uxl.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, Cu "Traffic Advis
Message -ID: <30500572@uxl.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 15 Jun 90 03:35:00 G14T
References: <76058XXXXX_XXXXX.00M>FX
Lines: 12
Nf-ID: #R:XXXXX.XXXXX.COtl 35:u:tl.cso.uiuc.edu:30500572:Qi 491
Nf-From: uzl.cso.uiuc.edu!phil Jun 14 22:35:00 1990
> You have this backwards. UPS already stole the 220 Mhz band. A
> Portland, Ore. HAM proposed PELTS, which was approved, and he 'STOLE'
> one of the 220 Mhz frequencies back from UPS_
Nope...
Aerotron stole the 220 Mhz band and SOLD it to the first buyer willing to
help them do it, then a ham proposed PELTS which is TEN channels.
--Phil Howard, KA9WGN-- ( Individual CHOICE is fundamental to a free society
<phil2u::l.cso.uiuc.edu> f no matter what the particular issue is all about.
Path. XXXXX!mbark
From: mbark@XXX)CA.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.autos.driving,misc.emerg-services,ca.dri
ving,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7650QXXX)CC.XXXXX.COM>
Date: 15 Jun 90 18:07:22 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <99078@philabs.P
hilips.Com>
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: XXXXX, XXXXX, CA
Lines: 37
Xref: XXXXX rec.ham-radio:22016 rec.radio.shortwave:2443 rec.autos.driving:1615 misc.emerg
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In article <99078@philab3.Philips.Com>, rfc@briar.Philips.Com (Robert Casey) writes:
> Seems to me that they don't really need to use radio to warn people of
> bad road conditions. Strategically placed flashing warning signs should
> do it, and all drivers will see them.
I quite agree. And with this we've gone full circle.
For six months I've waged a letter -writing campaign with a few dozen other
Central Valley residents to attempt to get the same sort of warning signs
installed out there for public safety that CalTrans is installing in L.A.
and the Bay Area for driving convenience. The standard CalTrans answers,
echoed by Assemblyman Pat Johnston, Stockton, is "Gee, man, there ain't
no money for that, man...." Grr.
The cheapest solution I can come up with (an interim, an aid, a partial
solution), is a CB "traffic advisory channel". Cost? Maybe a few
hundred bucks for the FCC, offset by millions of dollars of sales tars
revenue for state and municipal agencies.
> Having warnings on radio (CB, whatever) won't help drivers without the
> proper radio tuned to the proper frequency.
True. But I am already listening to KCBS, or when in LA, KNX I believe,
which do an adequate job for part of the problem. Will drivers acquire
a CB and tune to a traffic advisory channel to help them in rush hour?
The posting from the fellow with the valley CB'ers on I-405 in Los Angeles
implies yes, since they are already doing that. Will drivers acquire
a CB and tune to a traffic advisory channel to help them navigate through
the fog when they are scared out of their wits? I sure will. And I've
the majority of people I've talked to say they will also, but of course
talk is cheap....
un• c•_ a P,�o
� J
Thanks for the postings ar. ,deas, folks. They are really-_ipi.ng.
--Mike
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r.!natinst!sequoia!attdso!ssc!markz
From: markz@ssc.UUCP (Mark Zenier)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <828@ssc.UUCP>
Date: 14 Jun 90 19:06:15 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: SSC, Inc., Seattle, WA
Lines: 20
In article <25212@usc.edu>, kjh@pollum.use.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
> in -article <76G5@XXXXA.XXXXX.00M> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> > --that Citizens Band Radio
> Pardon my bad attitude, but who the h•11 cares about that spectrum
> anymore? Take your petition elsewhere. A few hams on here are old
> enough to remember when the band was stolen from us. The only
> petition we're likely to support is a petition to return those
> frequencies to the amateur service.
> Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/6 kjh@use.edu ...!uunet!use!pollu.Y!kjh
Your bad attitude in unpardonable. 33 years is a long time for a stupid grudge.
Yet this bitching continues. How many prospective hams have been alienated
by this idiocy? How much better off would the hobby be if a bunch of concrete
brained fossils weren't playing "Hatfields and McCoys"?
Markz@ssc.uucp
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ero!faigin
From: faigin@aerospace.aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: ca.driving, ba. transportation, misc. emerg-services, re c. autos.driving, rec.ham-rad
io,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message-ID:<FAIGIN.90Junl5074020@sunstroke.aerospace.aero.org>
Date: 15 Jun 90 14:40:20 GMT
References: <7605QXXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
<l990Jun12.195658.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Sender: news@aerospace.aero.org
Followup-To: ca.driving
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, Computer Security Department, E1
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ng:1641 rec.ham-radio:22040 rec.radio.shortwave:2448
In -reply -to: mbark@XXXXX.COM's message of 14 Jun 90 19:49:03 GMT
In article <76452XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
THE.FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP."
y b , 1`'I r P.3/
That's certainly not how yr.-4,Id hear it on CB. It would soup -'-more like...
We have a massive break check at the mossdale get -em -(on or off) southbound on
the big nickel or west on (slang for 1201. You'll do at best a three oh. It's
10-6 out there.
Thanks for your posting(s). I may submit all of them to my
(indifferent) Assemblyman if I can get a better nibble out of him on
this proposal than I did on the other fog proposals. If not, well
his opponent in November is a CHP officer who works those fog
pileups. Unfortunately, he's one of them thar Republicans. Sigh.
If you are getting the assembly interested in this, you might also try talking
to State Sen. Richard Katz (I believe that's his name, D -Sepulveda). He's
interested in transit issues. If you find some interest, let me know.
Daniel
[w):The Aerospace Corp M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 213/336-8228
CHI :9758 Natick Avenue * Sepulveda CA 91343 * 818/892-8555 ) If you turn it
[Em):faigingaerospace.aero.org • Faigin@dockmaster.ncse.mil over and don't
[Vmaill:213/336-5454 Box_#3149 ! let it go, you end up upside down
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!well!111-winken!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!acro!faigin
From: faigin@aerospace.aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: rec. ham -radio, rec. radio. short wave,rec. autos. driving, misc. emerg-services,ca. dri
ving,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message-IO:<FAIGIN.90Junl5145336@3unstroke.aero3pace.aero.org>
Date: 15 Jun 90 21:53:36 GMT
References: <76059XXXXX.XXXXX.COP> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
<99078@philabs.Phi lips. Com> <7650@X?0CX'.{.)CXX X -COM>
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In -reply -to: mbark@XXXXX.COM's message of 15 Jun 90 18:07:22 GMT
In article <7650@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXYaX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
The posting from the fellow with the Valley CB'ers on I-405 in Los Angeles
implies yes, since they are already doing that.
Well, since I'm the fellow in question ("OtherBeast" at your service), let me
let Mike in on some problems with CB.
It's fine and dandy to legislate the channel in Calif. won't help one bit. A
major problem with the OTHG's use of Channel 14 is, what is affectionately
refered to as "skipland". These are the people with immense illegal power out
in Louisiana, Texas, Inglewood :-), etc. that sit around an "read the mail"
for hours at a time. This prevents the locals from using the channel, and you
can't ask them politely to leave since our puny, legal 4- rigs can't reach
them. The FCC is a toothless wonder on enforcement. Then, there are the
"children" who discover CB and think it is a toy. we've had those too. There
was "Snowman", who kept sending a null carrier out, advertising his address
and saying he had Cocaine for sale (although we did get a CHP officer to
listen to the Channel for a while, and "Snowman" suddenly disappeared). There
are the children who like to broadcast music on the channel.
A channel reserved for traffic information would be lovely. Unfortunatly, with
the "clout" of the FCC today in the CB area, it won't happen.
Catch 'ya on the turnaround, gcod buddy, cause Otherbeast is goin' 10-7 back
to some real work.
Daniel
P.S.: There were, at times, other OTHG-ers out on the network. I still have
the Email addresses for a few of them.
OB
[WJ:The Aerospace Corp M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 213/336-8228
[H):9758 Natick Avenue * Sepulveda CA 91343 * 818/892-8555 j If you turn it
[Em]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org * Faigin@dockmaster.acsc.mil ! over and don't
[vmail]:213/336-5454 Box#3149 ! let it go, you end up upside down
Path: ==!XXXXX!3IXXXX.com!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd. hp. com! hplabs! hp f c so! hpf cdc
!perry
From: perry@hp£cdc.HP.COM (Perry Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7880154@hpfcde.HP.COM>
Date: 15 Jun 90 22:07:51 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Organization: HP Ft. Collins, Co.
Lines: 15
Rather than petitioning the FCC for new regulations that cannot be
enforced, the users of CB need to arrive at a "gentlemen's agreement"
about an advisory channel. I would think 19 (or 9 if it is life-
threatening) are already for this purpose.
This presupposes that a traffic advisory channel is effective. I
suggest attempting to hold a "traffic net" on a particular channel,
plus advertisements on other channels. it may be that nobody has
their CBs turned on !
Frankly, I'd be surprised if the anarchists on CB would allow such a
useful service.
Perry Scott
KFOCA
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!cccph
From: cccph@eel.cs.ucla.edu (Charles Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <36303@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: 17 Jun 90 17:06:29 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <78801548hpfcdc.HP.COM>
Sender: news@CS.UCLA.EDU
Reply -To: cccph@eel.cs.ucla.edu (Charles Hobbs)
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Lines: 15
In article <7880154@hpfcdc.HP.COM> perry@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Perry Scott) writes:
>Rather than petitioning the FCC for new regulations that cannot be
>enforced, the users of CB need to arrive at a "gentlemen's agreement"
----------------------
>about an advisory channel. I would think 19 (or 9 if it is life -
GENTLEMEN? Where! Where! Damned few I've heard on CB lately.
(There are exceptions, but they are few and far between)
But for the most part, "CB gentlemen's agreements" sounds like
"military intelligence" to me. I -,
--------------------------------------------------------------Lx1),9, r D,P. 33
Charles P. Hobbs, N6-fMK @ KJ&VE....
Internet: cccph.eel.es.ucl 3u Plink: oar001 Gen C.HOBBS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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1
From: neal@lyn_:.uucp (Neal Woodall)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advis
St msary: PELTS???
Message -ID: <78101ynx.UUCP>
Date: 16 Jun 90 00:28:98 GMT
References: <7605@)r3=X.)CkXXX.COM> <30500572@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply -To: neai@lynz.UUCP (Neal Woodall)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lynx Real -Time Systems Inc, Campbell CA
Lines: 17
In article <30500572@ux1.eso.uiuc.edu> phil@u:,.I.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>> You have this backwards. UPS already stole the 220 Mhz band. A
>> Portland, Ore. HAM proposed PELTS, which was approved, and he 'STOLE'
>> one of the 220 Mhz frequencies back from UPS.
>Aerotron stole the 220 Mhz band and SOLD it to the first buyer willing to
>help them do it, then a ham proposed PELTS which is TEN channels.
I have been away from this group for a few weeks, and now I have a question:
what is PELTS?
Neal
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.edu!bjm
From: bjm@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Bret Musser)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <9652@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 19 Jun 90 01:98:27 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 31
Xref: XX)= rec.autos.driving:1669 rec.ham-radio:22090
Personally, I think the CB advisory would be detrimental. As far as I
know, there is no law saying that Ch. 9 is the "Emergency" channel --
I•thc.ught that was just accepted �nnventlon which was then posted
on thousands of signs and then became a "de facto standard."
Yesterday I was returning home via the PA turnpike after seeing my father.
There was a bad accident at intersection 12 (76 and 70 -- Breezewood exit),
which I knew about at least 50 miles in advance. In the eastbound direction
there was a 5 mile backup (moving 5-10mph at most). The eastbound trucks
and whoever else was listening had at least 30 miles of warning -- 1 know
since I made sure to warn them that far myself.
Also yesterday (before that) there was at least a 5 mile backup (also
in the eastbound direction) due to construction on Rte 78. Eastbound
traffic listening to Ch. 19 knew about this at least 15 miles in advance.
We were suggesting to all that were listening to exit before the backup
and take old Rte 22.
Ch. 19 is already used for traffic advisories -- from scenes such as above N _4
to fog warnings to police reports. If you want traffic information, �K �:G{ '�Jr P. 34
try going,
"Break 1-9, how's the tz.._fic looking over your shoulder: Any tie-ups?"
And don't forget to ALWAYS reciprocate information.
bjm
Bret J. Musser -- Carnegie-Mellon University -- bjm@cs.cmu.edu -- 412-268-8751
"If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars." (J.P. Getty)
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u.edu!f.gp.cs.cnu.edu!bjm
From: bjm@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Bret Musser)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <9653@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 19 Jun 90 01:55:47 GMT
References: <6235@uudell.dell.com> <7626@XXXXX.XXXXX.CON> <110768@linus.mitre_org>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 18
In article <110768@linus.mitre.org> lexis@saint.UUCP (Keith Lewis) writes:
>In article <?626@XXXXX.XXXXX.CON> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes
>>I don't see any problem with Channel 19, but my brother says in this area
>>it's Channel 17. Does 19 have some official designation?
>
>19 is known among long haul truck drivers (nationwide, I believe) as _the_
>channel to listen on. If you see a truck coming the other way,
>and you wish to greet him, chances are he'll be tuned to 19.
BTW, it is such because Ch 19 (on a properly tuned set) has the
best transmission range of all 40 channels. Ain't much more
discouraging than losing the person you're talking to in fringe
areas.
bjm
Bret J. Musser -- Carnegie-Mellon University -- bjm@cs.cau.edu -- 412-268-8751
"If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars." (J.P. Getty)
Path: XXXXX!mbark
From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: ca. driving, ba. transportation, misc. emerg-services,rec. autos. driving, rec. ham -rad
io,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7668@XXXXX.XXXXX.COb>
Date: 19 Jun 90 17:14:50 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.CO1M> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> <FAIGIN.90Jun150
74020@sunstroke.aerospace.aerc.org>
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: XXXXX, XXXXX, CA
Lines: 82
Xref: XXXXX ca.driving:3364 ba. transportation: 811 misc. emerg-services: 1102 rec.autos.drivi
ng:1672 rec.ham-radio:22102 rec. radio. shortwave: 2467
In article<FAIGIN.90Junl5074020@sunstroke.aerospace. aero.org>, faigin@aerospace.aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
> In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX_COM> mbark@XX.YXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
> the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
> MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
> LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
> THE FOG 13 VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER Eittbti-D n,�j
> THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL tJQT BE ABLE TO STOP."
> That's certainly'not how you'ld hear it on CB. It would sound more like...
> We have a massive break check at the mossdale get -em -(on or off) southbound on
> the big nickel or west on (slang for 120). You'll do at best a three oh. It's
> 10-6 out there.
Sigh. Junk mail of the air. My own hope is that when things get scary enough
out there in the fog, the broadcasters will can the junk and deliver the message
in plain English. Fat chance, huh?
> If you are getting the assembly interested in this, you might also try talking
> to State Sen. Richard Katz ;r believe that's his name, D -Sepulveda). He's
> interested in transit issues. If you find some interest, let me know.
The way things work, it will probably take me another month to crank this up
as an election issue in San Joaquin County, mostly because it will take that
long to be sure that Assar.blyaan Johnston has decided there is "nothing he can
do". So we get somebody else. If Assemblyman Johnston suddenly decides to
carry the spear, then maybe we can get a legislative resolution out of
Sacto supporting some of these programs, although Cal -Trans ignored the two
Senate resolutions 27 years ago telling them to get off their fannies and
do something to stop the slaughter in the fog. ("We can't do it - it's
too hard", etc., etc.,). After slaughtering all the Local Hero's, maybe
we can look for an L.A. Hero, but if you wish to make enquiries of Sen. Katz,
please do so. Else, I'll wait a bit.
In article<FAIGIN.90Jun15145336@sunstroke.aerospace. aero. org>, faigin@aerospace.aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
> let Mike in on some problems with CB.
> It's fine and dandy to legislate the channel in Calif. Won't help one bit. A
> major problem with the OTHG's use of Channel 14 is, what is affectionately
> refered to as "skipland". These are the people with immense illegal power out
> in Louisiana, Texas, Inglewood :-), etc. that sit around an "read the mail"
> for hours at a time. This prevents the locals from using the channel, and you
> can't ask them politely to leave since our puny, legal 4w rigs can't reach
> them. The FCC is a toothless wonder on enforcement. Then, there are the
> "children" who discover CB and think it is a toy. We've had those too. There
> was "Snowman", who kept sending a null carrier out, advertising his address
> and saying he had Cocaine for sale (although we did get a CHP officer to
> listen to the Channel for a while, and "Snowman" suddenly disappeared). There
> are the children who like to broadcast music on the channel_
> A channel reserved for traffic information would be lovely. Unfortsnatly, with
> the "clout" of the FCC today in the CB area, it won't happen.
Re skipland and enforcement:
Petition 1 - to establish a CB "traffic advisory" channel (the old "foot in
the door").
Petition 2 - to permit CHP and CalTrans to broadcast advisories on that
channel without bothering with the "point-to-point" fiction.
Petition 3 - to permit CHP and CalTrans to broadcast on that channel at
up to 10,000 watts at their discretion.
Petition 4 - to delegate channel discipline enforcement for that channel
to state highway patrols (probably take some pretty tricky
joint legislation) . D( �3 b
Uh, oh. I hear the ether ,Aq�rchists at my door....
> P.S.: There were, at times, other MHG-ers out on the network. I still have
> the Email addresses for a few of them.
I'd like to hear how they feel about all this.
--Mike
Path: XXXXX!)MXXX!)C(XXX.cr'—�iec:+rl!ucbvaa:!ALDERAAN.SCRC.SYI' ,ICS.COM!Ed
From: Ed@ALDEFAAN.SCRC.SYI--aLICS.COM (Ed Schwalenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <19900620183321.7.ED@PEREGRINE.SCRC.Symbolics.Com>
Date: 20 Jun 90 18:33:00 GMT
References:<usc!cs.utexas.edu!texbell!uudell!bigtex!natinst!sequoia!attdso!sse!markz@ucsd
.edu>
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 13
Date: 14 Jun 90 19:06:15 GMT
From: use!cs.utexas.edu!ter.bell!uudell".bigte.-.!natinst!sequoia!attdso!ssc!mark z@ucsd.ed
U (Mark Zenier)
In article <25212@usc.edu>, kjh@pollu._.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
> A few hams on here are old
> enough to remember when the band was _stolen from us.
Your bad attitude in unpardonable. 33 years is a long time for a stupid grudge.
I think his bad attitude is especially unpardonable because he's only 27.
He is falsely attempting to don the mantle of an old-timer, when in fact
he's just a premature old fart.
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!mailru3!hu3c6!unix!larson
From: larson@unix.SRI.COM (Alan Larson)
Newsgroups: ca.driving,ba.transportation,rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <133438unix.SRI.COM>
Date: 21 Jun 90 00:29:32 GMT
References: <76056XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.CCM> <1990Junl2.19565
8.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX_XXXXX.COM>
Reply -To: larson@unix.UUCP (Alan Larson)
Followup-To: ca.driving
Distribution: usa
Organization: SRI international, Menlo Park, CA
Lines: 19
Xref: XXXXX ca.driving:3369 ba. transportation: 821 rec. autos. driving: 1720 r.ec.harm-radio:221
61
In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark$XXXXX.COII (Michael Barkley) writes:
> What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
>the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
>I-IOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
>LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
>THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
>THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP." Which was the truth. A CHP
>override on scre sort of widely -monitored channel really seems to me to be
>the hope for the future.
Perhaps I am missing something. If the fog is very dense, and you are
looking out the front window, you should know to slow down without having
someone on the radio tell you.
It would seem unwise to drive so fast that you could not see and
avoid hazards that may appear in front of you.
Alan
x�� b �, P,36
r
From uucp Thu Jun 21 14:30,-kDT 1990
>From uucp Thu Jun 21 11:: ?DT 1990 remote from XX)=
>From mbark Thu Jun 21 ll:.3 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
Path: XXXXY.!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!ucsd!helics.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.
utah.edu!uplherc!esunix!hcooper
From: hcooper@esunix.UUCP (Hardware Support)
Newsgrour-: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Road conditions, etc via 2 -way radio
Keywords: radio, cb, ham, scanner
Message -ID: <2005@esunix.UUCP>
Date: 19 Jun 90 23:00:45 GMT
Distribution: uza
Organization: Evans & Sutherland, Salt Lake City, Utah
Lines: 34
X -Local -Date: 19 Jun 90 16:00:45 PDT
I have been trying to follow the thread on using Ce as a good
communications tools for advising motorists of impending disasters. So
I stand on my orange crate and spill my guts.
1. The FCC is not very interested in telling some million or so users
that "only use channel r_x for advising of motor/commutor situations".
They gave up licensing, and pretty much enforcing part 95 some years
ago. I think that under some conditions, the rules could be enforced
for major violations, but they are a small bunch, and can't do it all.
2. One other reader mentioned that usinga nationwide channel is bad for
several reasons (and I agree), such as people who intentially jam by
sending a NON signal (open carrier), or playing music, etc. The other
is sporadic -e skip, which by you can use 4 watts and manage to talk from
California to New York (no, you don't need megawatts. I talk on 10
meters mobile with 12 watts SSB to the South Seas and Japan). So you
end up hearing garbage from all over.
OK, so you people who use CB (I did back in the late 60's and early
70.3) say, "but I have used it and I can get good information on whats
up ahead". Great. Use it this way by setting up a net each morning and
evening on some channel (last I listened to one, only 19 was busy) and
let the others know about. It might also be a good idea to use plain
engli3h. This way the people who are in the same general area can get
the information they need.
What do I use, since I seem to know it all (smiley >>> :-) ). well, I
have two police scanners that I monitor the sheriff and state patrol,
along with the air traffic planes for the local radio stations. I
usually keep a good idea of what is going on. And of course, therer are
the traffic nets on the local 2 meter ham repeaters. Enough said.
Harrison Cooper
NUST
Fran uucp Thu Jun 21 14:32 EDT 1990
>From uucp Thu Jun 21 11:36 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From mbark Thu Jun 21 11:36 PDT 1990 remote from XXX)DC
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!decwrl!ucbvax!ucsd!usc!pollux.usc.edu!kjh
From: kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <25430@usc.edu>
Date: 20 Jun 90 22:59:04 GMT
ReFerenr_es:<usc!cs.utexas.edu!texbell!uudell!bigtex!natinst!sequoia!attdso!ssc!mazkz@ucsd
.edu> <19900620183321.7.ED@PEREGRIIiE.SCRC.Syrnbolics.COM> jj�� j
Sender: news@usc.edu 1=X�f ✓ / 1 j� �, -79
Distribution: na
Organization: EE -Systems, USC, Los Angeles
Lines: 21
In article <1990062018332":.7.ED@PEREGRINE.SCRC.Symbolics. COM> Ed@ALDERAAN.SCRC.SYMBOLICS.0
OM (Ed Schwalenberg) writes:
$ From: use!es.utexas.edu!te:.bell!uudell!bigtex!natinst!sequoia!attdso!ssc!markz@ucsd.e
du (Mark Zenier)
$ In article <25212@usc.edu>, kjh@pollun.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
$ % A few hams on here are old
$ % enough to remember when the band was _stolen_ from us.
$ Your bad attitude in unpardonable. 33 years is a long time for a stupid grudge_
$ I think his bad attitude is especially unpardonable because he's only 27.
$ He is falsely attempting to don the mantle of an old-timer, when in fact
$ he's just a premature old fart.
Please note that I didn't claim to be old enough myself to remember this
incident. I said a few hams on this forum are.
I have a very bad attitude towards the FCC, for many reasons, not the
least of which is the 220 MHz band fiasco. The FCC is run by political
cronies, and not people who have any tec).-.i%al ability. It shows. I
can't think of one good thing that the FCC has done for amateur radio in
the last 10 years. More than just a few hams share my opinion of the
FCC.
Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/6 kjh@usc.edu ...!uunet!usc!pollu_Y!kjh
Path: X37000mbark
From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
Newsgroups: ca.driving,ba.transportation,misc.emerg-services,rec.autos.driving,rec.railroa
d
Subject: Re: Call for Coaanent, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7687@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Date: 22 Jun 90 00:36:14 GMT
Reverences: <7605@XXX30C.XXXXX.COH> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <13343@unis.SRI.
COH>
Distribution: usa
Organization: XXXXX, XXXXX, CA
Xref: XXXXX ca.driving:3374 lia.tran3portation:823 misc.emerg-services:1107 rec.autos.driv
ng:1742 rec.railroad:5175
In article <13343@unix. SRI.COM>, larson@unix.SRI.COM (Alan Larson) writes:
> In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> > What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
> >the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
> >MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN To 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
> >LA.VES Ar'.S BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
> >THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
> >THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP." Which was the truth. A CHP
> >override on some sort of widely -monitored channel really seems to me to be
> >the hope for the future.
> Perhaps I am missing something. if the fog in very dense, and you are
> looking out the frcnt window, you should know to slow down without having
> someone on the radi-3 tell you.
> It would seem unw:_se to drive so fast that you could not see and
> avoid hazards that may appear in front of you.
You are exactly right. Except that _:,en the maximum safe speed for
conditions in the fog drops below about 40 mph, is you go that slow the guy
behind you becomes a bullet bearing down on your bod.
We have close to 1.0,000,000 licensed drivers in California. The vehicle
code makes each of these c era an expert in determining w the maximum
safe speed for conditions is_ It ain't working all that wel.L. John Q.
Public needs some help. Fog is seductive, a cool, fuzzy blanket, lulls
the unwary, speeds edge up, "I haven't run into anything yet so I must
be OK, right" takes over, suddenly you smash thru a crossing guard and
SPLAT, AMTRAK to you too! (I concede, Adrian. You were right. Sorry!)
Or suddenly traffic doesn't slow, it comes to an instantaneous dead stop
as people run into each other:
12/01/86 - First collisions at the first northbound Manteca SR -99 exit
at 7:30 or so in the morning. By the time conditions cleared up, more than
135 vehicles (per County OES) were involved, and the wreckage stretched
back through Ripon, across the county line, and into Salida (8 miles?).
12/14/88 - I as driving in pea -soup fog westbound on SR -120 at a hair over
30 mph (too fast, too fast) scared out of my wits when I see a flatbed
truck loom in front of me. A split second decision and I merged left where
I came to a stop a hundred yards further along behind some messy accidents.
Moments later a furniture van doing 50 or so plows into the flatbed,
killing the driver and involving the four vehicles in front of him. 13
chain -reaction collisions in the vicinity involved 30 vehicles and sent 24
to the hospital.
12/18/89 - I am driving westbound on SR -120 at a hair over 30 mph (too
fast! too fast.') scared out of my wits. Two other drivers tuck in
behind me to get out of the yo-yo lane and follow at a safe distance.
Coming to the I-5 merge point, dead -stop traffic looms out of the fog.
We stop OK, barely. As I watch the mirror, I hear a collision and see
a car climb over the lady 2 cars behind me, and its gas tank explodes.
The rest of us pull over onto the shoulder (Waaaay out of the way) and
get out to help, at which time we see vehicles begin to slam into others
on I-5 next to us. Half a dozen we can see, another half dozen we hear,
one fatality a hundred yards back, 60-80 vehicles, 29 to the hospital,
collisions went on for 15 to 20 minutes from the initial collision a
mile and a half ahead of us. (convinced that these incidents stretch
the concept of "accident", I began to collect info and write letters)
12/27/89 - I-205, combination 40 mph fog and black ice on the overpasses.
Yowl. 2 dead, jackknifed big rigs all over the place. Ever see a big
rig flip a U-turn across a freeway median in front of you in the fog?
1/30/90 - Selma California, fog, 5 dead, collisions go on for an hour and
a half.
3/12/90 - Green Bay, Wisconsin, fog, 3 dead, 52 vehicles.
5/23/90 - Tulare, California (blowing dust), 1 dead, 19 vehicles. The
man who died was in a Buick, squashed between 2 big rigs. To get him
out they took the Buick to a wrecking yard and dismantled it piece by
piece.
In 1963 the California State Senate passed the first o,f two resolutions
recognizing the terrible volume of multiple -vehicle collisions in the fog
in California, and ordering CalTrans to do something about it. 27 years
later, and Cal- Trans' total accomplishments are the placement of 3 sets
of plastic reflectors to mark freeway exit lanes, plus a system of CHP
guided convoy! in the fog that CH? doesn't even do any more because they
don't have the money.
I'm doing my best to drive safely out there. But until we get (centralized
oL syncronized) proximity and speed controls on motor vehicles, we need
all the help we can get, automated traffic control systems, publicity, and
maybe relevant CB corsnunications with dozens of eyes and ears sharing
hazard info. I was hoping CB would be the easiest part, since it doesn't
cost the indifferent bunch in Sacto a damn dime and actually earns them
sales tax revenue. And I am also hopint, that the applicability of it to-
r',('( �1 �'��
L lJIt
monitor traffic condition- general as well az commute ti is will be
enough of a hook to encourage the general public to participate. In plain
English, of course (thank you, HC).
Final draft of FCC petition is coming as soon as I get to the Law Library....
--Mike
p.s. I seem to remember the Garden State Freeway, New Jersey, as having
the all-time records for fog pileups. Can anybody send me
details?
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvaxl!rutg
ers!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!larrybud.rtp.dg.com!goudreau
From: goudreau@larrybud.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <1990Jun22.074402.14400@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Date: 22 Jun 90 07:44:02 GMT
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.00HD <25212@u3c.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COH> <13343@uni-.SRI.
CON> <7687@XXXXX.)O0=.COH>
Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration)
Reply -To: goudreati@larrybud.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC
Lines: 17
In article <7687@XXXXX.XXXXX.COH>, mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
writes:
> p.s. I seem to remember the Garden State Freeway, New Jersey, as having
> the all-time records for fog pileups. Can anybody send me
> details?
[BTU, that's "Garden State *Parkway*".) Do you mean the US record, or
the world record? It was my understanding that multi -hundred -vehicle
pileups happen with dismaying frequency in parts of Europe.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau +1 919 248 6231
Data General Corporation
62 Alexander Drive goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 ...!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!goudreau
USA
From uucp Fri Jun 22 14:19 EDT 1990
>From uucp Fri Jun 22 11:08 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From mbark Fri Jun 22 11:08 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!decwrl!ames!ucsd!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.colu:nbi
a.edu!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
From: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <617@ke4zv.UUCP>
Date: 21 Jun 90 14:50:32 GI -IT
References: <usc!cs.utexas.edu!texbell!uudell!bigtex!natinst!sequoia!attdso!ssc!markz@ucsd
.edu> <19900620183321.7.ED@PEREGRINE.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> <25430@usc.edu>
Reply -To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Distribution: na
Organization: none
Lines: 15
in article <25430@use.edu> kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
>I have a very bad attitude- -owards the FCC, for many reaso_ not the
>least of which is the 220 MHz band fiasco. The FCC is run by political
>cronies, and not people who have any technical ability. It shows. I
>can't think of one good thing that the FCC has done for amateur radio in
>the last 10 years. More than just a few hams share my opinion of the
>FCC.
Temper! Temper! The FCC has an excellent laboratory staff and the
field engineering people are generally excellent as well. They are
under staffed and under equipped and under funded to the point that
only two and half people are assigned to amateur matters exclusively.
They have far larger matters to attend to than just amateur radio and
they have been amazingly tolerant of our dwindling service. The fact
that they have allowed a declining service serving relatively few
people to continue to have access to a disproportionate share of
scarce spectrum is simply amazing. They have granted us a degree of
self regulation offered to no other service. we had better exercise
it or their tolerance will finally end_
What has the FCC done for us in the last ten years? well two new
HF bands, VEC examinations, STA for Skipnet to name a few.
Gary KE4ZV
From uucp Fri Jun 22 21:53 EDT 1990
>From uucp Fri Jun 22 17:27 PDT 1990 remote from XX)=
>From uucp Fri Jun 22 17:27 PDT 1990 remote from XXXX_
>From uucp Fri Jun 22 17:23 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From ucscb.UCSC.EDU!matthew Fri Jun 22 15:46:37 1990 remote from ns.XXXXX.COM
Received: from ucacb.UCSC.EDU ([128.114.129.6)) by ns.XXXXX.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA12834; Fri, 22 Jun 90 15:46:37 PDT
Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (5.61/1.34)
id AA13190; Fri, 22 Jun 90 15:46:23 -0700
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 15:46:23 -0700
From: matthew@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Matthew Kaufman)
Message -Id: <9006222246.AA13190@ucscb.UCSC.EDU>
To: mbark@XXXXX.COM
Subject: re: fcc proposal
> Petition 1 - to establish a CB "traffic advisory" channel (the old "foot in
> the door").
Possibly good idea.
> Petition 2 - to permit CHP and CalTrans to broadcast advisories on that
> channel without bothering with the "point-to-point" fiction.
> Petition 3 - to permit CH? and CalTrans to broadcast on that channel at,
> up to 10,000 watts at their discretion.
very bad idea. what makes you think that the entire country
(and for that matter, most of the world) is interested in hearing about
traffic problems in CALIFORNIA? Once there's a traffic advisory channel
that's the same for the entire U.S., the most important thing to do
will be to:
a) limit the number of users
b) control the power used by all of the users to make it
as low as possible
(think about why cellular phone works so much better than the older
mobile telephone technology)
> Petition 4 - to delegate channel discipline enforcement for that channel
> to state highway patrols (probably take some pretty tricky \ 2 Q3
> joint legislation) . C)c
r
If you think they're short of money now, just wait until
they start hiring specialists in RF Direction Finding and spend
all day tracking people around.
in general, I think that this will never work on CB. Another system
will need to be developped. Perhaps you could petition CalTrans to
install remotely controlled road signs, remotely controlled speed limit
signs and remote weather monitoring capabilities, so that they could
tell where it was foggy. If you want to have it broadcast to your car,
consider a system that uses cellular phone data channels or a system
that uses broadcast station subcarriers, like the Germans do.
-matthew kaufman
(matthew@ucscb.ucse.edu)
Path: XX)=!XXXXX!XX)DCX.com!decwrl! apple! usc!ucsd!ucbvas!unisof t! hoptoad! kumr! pozar
From: pozar@kumr.UUCP (Tim Pozar)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <153@kumr.UUCP>
Date: 22 Jun 90 15:49:15 GMT
References: <76056XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <1990Junl2.19565
8.29470@lia> <7645CXXXXX.XXXXX.COM>
Reply -To: pozar@kumr.UUCP (Tim Pozar)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Late Night Software (San Francisco)
Lines: 21
In article <7645@XXXXX.XX)=.COM> mbark@XXXXX.CCM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
>the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
>MOSSDALE SLAW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
>LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL I-NNES ARE BLOCKED.
>THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
>THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP." Which was the truth. A CHP
>override on some sort of widely -monitored channel really seems to me to be
>the hope for the future.
What I have found very helpful, is to listen to the coordination /
programme channel for Metro Traffic. You will get a full Bay Area
report on traffic condtions way before they're announced on TV or radio.
If you have a portable scanner in your car, tune to 450.0625 MHz.
Tim
Tim Pozar Try also...
Internet: uunet!hoptoad!kumr!pozar Fido: 1:125/555 Pa8ell: (415) 788-3504
• USNail: KKSF / 77 Maiden Lane / San Francisco CA 94108
From uucp Tue Jun 26 09:13 EDT 1990
>From uucp Tue Jun 26 06:18 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From uucp Tae Jun 26 06:18 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From uucp Tue Jun 26 06:17 PDT 1990 remote from XXXXX
>From pyuxp!nvuxj!hschu Tue Jun 26 09:12 EDT 1990 remote from bcr
To: pyuxp!bel lcore-2! bel lcore!rut gers!cs.utexa3.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!XXXXX.com'
XXXXX!XXXXXlmbark
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
References: <7605@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <25212@u3c.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.CO.%D <1990Jun12.1956;
8.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COt4>
The rumor that Germany has some sort of general overide built into car �� t oso
transmit emergency traffic visories is not quite accurate'
ut bears some
truth. Here is briefly how c works:
1. All stations carrying traffic information transmit a subaudible tone which
can be decoded by most car radios. This tone is on all the time and assists in
finding a traffic station (on FM, 87.5-108 MHz only).
2. Many car radios can also detect a 'code character', A -F, indicating for what
geographical zone the traffic news are being provided. This code character will
be displayed. When driving on the Autobahn, watch for signs indicating the zone
character and which frequency to tune to (for people without decoder).
3. I=zdiately before a traffic advisory, a low audible tone is transmitted. In
those radios equipped with the appropriate decoder, the volume will be increased
or, if a tape is being played, the tape is stopped and the radio audio is
switched on. Another tone after the traffic advisory restores everything.
Multi -casualty accidents, especially in fog, happen nevert: less, however ...
Hermann Schumacher, PhD, EMT
Bellcore, Red Bank NJ 07701
Phone : (201) 758-3310
The standard disclaimers apply ....
e-mail: hschu@nyquist.bellcore.com
Packet: DF2DR@WB2COP-4
Path: XX7CK!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!mips!zaphod.mps.thio- state. edu!uakari.prima te.wisc. edu!daIi.cs
.montana.edu!ogicse!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!nosun!techbook!jamesd
From: jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele)
Newsgroups: rec.autos. driving, misc.emerg-services,rec. ham-radio,rec. radio. shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <5820techbook.com>
Date: 27 Jun 90 01:54:11 GMT
References: <1990Junl2.195658.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX.XM=.00M> <FAIGIN.90Junl5074020@suns
troke.aerospace.aero.org>
Distribution: usa
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Lines: 32
Xref: XXXXX rec.autos.driving:1822 misc.emerg-services:1117 rec.ham-radio:22341 rec.radio.
3hortwave:2535
In article<FAIGIN.9OJun1S074020@sunstroke.aerospace.aero.org> faigin@aerospace.aero.org
Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXX.XX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
> What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
> the cautions "I£ YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND Oft 1-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
> MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
> LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED-
> THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
> THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP."
That's an interesting idea, to use CB for traffic warnings. I find the traffic
reports on the radio infuriating, because they're substantially behind the
action (as other people have commented) and because they're only given during
prime -time (7:30AM-9:OOAM, 4:30PM-6:00PM approximately). I don't drive during
that time, normally, and I come around corners to find traffic backed up for
miles at 6:30PM. Not fun.
If -someone, like a gas station chain, were to try to do road warnings, would
they be able to use CB? Or would that be a commercial use, and not allowed?
How about a loo: -power AM radio? I'd listen to a radio station that gave the
traffic situation every five minutes or less <REGARDLESS> of what kind of music
I
r news or talk or ads they used as filler between the traffic reports.
(I have the impression that with CB, you'd need to use repeater stations, and
maybe with AM, too. Seems like there are daytime -only licenses for r.M, but I
think all commercial radic�'.cenzes cost big bucks. But ti,�` I'm really not
familiar with radio ._.)
jamesd@techbook.COM...!(tektronix!nosun,uunet)!techbook!jamesd
Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) voice: +1 503 646-8257
Technical books mailing list --- mail "techbook!-tbj-request"
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!111-winken!uunet!mailrus!ncar!ico!ism780c!kendy
From: kendy@isn:780c.isc.com (Ken Dye)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,ca.driving
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <44480@ism780c.isc.com>
Date: 27 Jun 90 18:19:48 GMT
References: <1990Jun12_195658.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <FAIGIN.90Jun15074020@suns
troke.aerospace.aero.org> <582@techbook.com>
Reply -To: kendy@ism780c.ism.isc.com (Ken Dye)
Distribution: usa
Organization: interactive Systems Corp., Santa Monica CA
Lines: 28
Xref: XXXXX rec.autos.driving:1840 ca.driving:3404
In article <582@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:
>In article<FAIGIN.90Jun15074020@sunstroke.aerospace.aero.org> faigin@aerospace.aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley) writes:
>> What.I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
>> the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
>> MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY. ALL
>> LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
>> THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
>> THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP."
>That's an interesting idea, to use CB for traffic warnings. I find the traffic
>reports on the radio infuriating, because they're substantially behind the
>action (as other people have commented) and because they're only given during
>prime -time (7:30AM-9:OOAM, 4:30PM-6:OOPM approximately). I don't drive during
Chicago's department o'transportation has a pretty good system
which incorporates sensors on the major highways, piped into a computer
which broadcasts traffic reports constantly on extreme low and high AM
bands. Also included in the report are any major accidents and where
road construction projects are ... really useful information. I was suprised
to find, upon moving to LA, that there is nothing like that here ... WHY NOT?
Traffic is a lot worse here, and there are few alternatives (unlike Chicago,
which has great public transportation).
--Ken
kendy@ism.isc.com (213)453-8649 x3153 "I'm Chloe. Let's wrassle!"
"Sitting on the console all day, watching the news scroll away ..."
Path: XXXXX!XXXXX!XXXXX.com!ames!ucsd!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!eica!iuvax!uxl.eso.uiuc.edu!m
idway!iitmax!draughn
From: draughn@iitmax.IIT.EDU (Mark Draughn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,misc.emerg-services,rec.ham-radio,rec.radio.shortwave
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, CS "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <3900@iitmax.IIT.EDU>
Date: 27 Jun 90 17:53:37 GMT
References: <1990Jun12.195658.29470@lia> <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> <FAIGIN.90Jun15074020@suns
troke.aerospace.aero.org> <582@techbook.com>
Reply -To: draughn@iittrax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn)
S b
Distribution: usa
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology
Lines: 59
Xref: XXXXX rec. autos. driving: 1837 misc.emerg-services:1118 rec.ham-radio:22362 rec.radio.
shortwave:2543
In article <582@techbook.com> jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:
>In article<FAIGIN.90JuniS074020@sun3troke.aerospace.aero.org> faigin@aerospace.aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>>In article <7645@XXXXX.XXXXX.00M> mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael
Barkley)
>>writes :
>> What I wanted to hear, within moments of the first impacts, were
>> the cautions "IF YOU ARE SOUTHBOUND ON I-5 OR WESTBOUND ON SR 120 AT
>> MOSSDALE SLOW DOWN TO 30 MPH OR YOU ARE GOING TO KILL S'r7l-BODY. ALL
>> LANES ARE BLOCKED WITH MASSIVE ACCIDENTS. ALL LANES ARE BLOCKED.
>> THE FOG IS VERY DENSE, THE ROADS ARE SLICK, AND IF YOU ARE GOING FASTER
>> THAN 30 MPH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP.'
>That's an interesting idea, to use CB for traffic warnings. I find
>the traffic reports on the radio infuriating, because they're
>substantially behind the action (as other people have commented) and
>because they're only given during prime -time (7:30AM-9:OOAM,
>4:30PM-6:00PM approximately). I don't drive during that time,
>normally, and I come around corners to find traffic backed up for
>miles at 6:30PM. Not fun.
Here in Chicago, the Illinois Department of Transportation operates a
group of low-power AM stations that provide traffic information.
The stations broadcast at the top and bottom of the dial (540 and 1610
I think). The broadcast alternates between events affecting traffic
and actual traffic reports. It is all automated.
There is a tape that describes the daily schedule for construction
work, lane closures, ramp closures, parades,.and other events
affecting traffic.
This alternates with computerized traffic reports: "As of ... 5:55 pm
... there is severe congestion on the following currently monitored
sections of the highway system ... Kennedy expressway ... inbound ...
between Montrose avenue ... and Irving Park road ... between Kedzie
avenue ... and the Ohio street junction ..." and so on. The reports
are updated every 10 minutes or so by sensors buried in the highways.
If an emergency situation such as a flood or a really bad accident
screws up traffic somewhere, an additional tape is usually added to
the sequence to describe the problem.
This service is coupled with a phone number (322 -DOT -INFO) that can be
used (with optional touch-tone control) to get additional traffic information,
to get rcuting information, and to report accidents.
One problem with this system is that when traffic comes to a complete
stop somewhere, the computer doesn't detect cars moving over the
sensors and decides that there is no traffic. This is fairly rare.
The other problem is that the broadcast has so little power that it is
easily lost in the static. These are both minor problems.
It's a system that I like a lot.
EMAIL: draughn8iitmax.iit.edu+--------------+ Academic Computing Center
BITNET: SYSMARK@IITVAX ( Mark Draughn 1 10 W. 31st St.
VOICE: +l 312 567 5962 +--------------+ Illinois Institute of Technology
ALSO: ...(nucsrl►att)!iitmax!draughn Chicago, Illinois 60616 7
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ca!sorgatz
From: sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.COM ( Avatar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-radio
Subject: CB Channel 9 is for emergency traffic!
Message -ID: <18110@ttidca.TTI.00M>
Date: 25 Jun 90 22:39:23 GMT
References: <7605@X)CCM_XXXXX.COM> <25212@usc.edu> <7617@X`XXXX.XXXX C.COM> <9652@pt.cs.cnu.
edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization_: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica
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Xref: XXXXX rec.auto3.driving:1818 rec.ham-radio:22330
In article <9652@pt.cs.cnu.edu> bjm@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Bret Musser) writes:
+Personally, I think the CB advisory would be detrimental. As far as I
+know, there is no law saying that Ch. 9 is the "Emergency" channel --
+I thought that was just accepted convention which was then posted
+on thousands of signs and then became a "de facto standard."
Go ahead, tell me you DIDN'T read the little booklet that came with your
radio! Look in the box ... it says "Part 95 - FCC RULES" on the cover..got
that? RTFM! (sheesh! college -kids...!) You'll also notice that the regs
of Part 95 prohibit modifying your rig - running linear amplifiers - the
use of obscene language and many other things that you'll encounter on the
wunnerful 11 meter band...uost of the people on have never read Part 95
either..it's not required reading..but: Ignorance is no excuse! In using
a transmitter on 11 meters..you have 'agreed' to abide..catch that? Just
because you didn't sign for a license, dozen't mean the rules don't apply!
-Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+
Citicorp(+)TTI *----------> panic trap; type - N+1 *
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+
{csun,philabs,psivax,pyramid,quadl,rdlvax,retix)!ttidca!sorgatz **
(OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR IT'S MANAGEMENT!)
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.zl.fidonet.org!David.Stark
From: David.Stark@f218.n260.zl.fidonet.org (David Stark)
Newsgroups: mise.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Call for Comment, C8 "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <21281.268A1OC8@stjhmc.fidonet.org>
Date: 28 Jun 90 14:06:10 GMT
Sender: ufgate@stjhmc.fidonet.org (newsoutl.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/218 - NF2G Online, Rochester NY
Lines: 40
> From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (Michael Barkley)
> Re skipland and enforcement:
> Petition 1 - to establish a CB "traffic advisory" channel (the
> old "foot in the door").
On a State level, this is unconstitutional, although California has
established a history of making.its own radio laws anyway.
>
Petition 2 - to
permit CHP and CalTranz to broadcast advisories
>
on that channel
without bothering with the "point-to-point"
>
fiction.
i
Please elaborate? S? -"%e licenses for individual stat:" s are no longer
' required, what's to stop Ci- or anybody from using a CB?
> Petition 3 - to permit CHP and CalTrans to broadcast on that
> channel at up to 10,000 watts at their discretion.
Unlikely at best. This would require an FCC waiver of existing rules for
power output in that band. I don't think the FCC would even consider giving
them 100 watts.
> Petition 4 - to delegate channel discipline enforcement for that
> channel to state highway patrols (probably take some pretty
> tricky joint legislation).
This may work if Congress allows FCC to delegate its enforcement powers
to the States. It would probably evoke howls of protest from state governments
who can barely afford to do the enforcement jobs they already have. Where is
the money for local enforcement coming from? If the Federal government can't
afford to pay the FCC enough to enforce the rules, they certainly can't afford
to give money to the State governments to do the same job.
Uucp: ...(gatech,aures,rutgers)!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!260!218!David.Stark
Internet: David.Stark@f218.n260.zl.fidonet.org
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du!f.gp.cs.cmu.edu!bjm
From: bjm@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Bret Musser)
Newsgroups: rec. autos. driving, rec. ham- radio
Subject: Re: CB Channel 9 is for emergency traffic!
Message -ID: <9750@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 28 Jun 90 01:13:18 GMT
References: <7605@XXX3.7t.XXXXX.00M> <25212@use.edu> <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <9652@pt.cs.cmu.
edu> <18110@ttidca.TTI.CON>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
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Xref: 30D= rec. autos. driving: 1846 rec.ham-radio:22372
In article <18110@ttidca.TTI.COM> sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.CGM ( Avatar) writes:
>In article <9652@pt.cs.cmu.edu> bjm@f.gp.es.cmu.edu (Bret Musser) writes:
>+Personally, I think the CB advisory would be detrimental. As far as I
>+know, there is no law saying that Ch. 9 is the "Emergency" channel --
>+I thought that was just accepted convention which was then posted
>+on thousands of signs and then became a "de facto standard."
> Go ahead, tell me you DIDN'T read the little booklet that came with your
>radio! Look in the box ... it says "Part 95 - FCC RULES" on the cover..got
>that? RTFIV (sheesh! college -kids...!) You'll also notice that the reqs
>of Part 95 prohibit modifying your rig - running linear amplifiers - the
>use of obscene language and many other things that you'll encounter on the
>wunnerful li meter band...most of the people on have never read Part 95
>either..it's not required reading..but: Ignorance is no excuse! In using
>a transmitter on 11 meters..you have 'agreed' to abide..catch that? Just
>because you didn't sign for a license, dosen't mean the rules don't apply!
Well, EEEEEX:GIXXCCCCCCUUUUUUUSSSSSSEEEEEEE M_."dMEEEEEEEEEE.
Geesh, replies like that make me think that some people around here
have attitude problems.
Yeah, I read my manual. Yes, I read the supplied copy of the FCC regs.
4
It would seem that I forge' -"ghat Ch 9 was a law. No, I done- have an
amplifier on my set. Yes, did remember that such devices e
illegal. No, I never use obscene language on the air. I almost
never use obscene language even in private (except the occasional toe
stubbings in the morning).
Forgetting the rules is no excuse. I apologize. Lighten up some, pal.
Oh, and I never transmit on Ch 9 except for 'emergencies.' Just
because I didn't remember it being a law doesn't mean I broke it.
bjm
Bret J. Musser -- Carnegie-Mellon University -- bjm@cs.cmu.edu -- 412-268-8751
"If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars." (J.P. Getty)
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llg
From: billg@cs.tamu.edu (William Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: CB Channel 9 is for emergency traffic!
Message -ID: <62158helios.TAMU.EDU>
Date: 28 Jun 90 13:44:53 GMT
References: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.COM> <9652@pt.cs.cmu.edu> <18110@ttidca.TTI.00M>
Sender: usenet@helios.TAMU.EDU
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving
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In article <18110@ttidca.TTI.COM> sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.COM ( Avatar) writes:
> Go ahead, tell me you DIDN'T read the little booklet that came with your
>radio! Look in the box ... it says "Part 95 - FCC RULES" on the cover..got
>that? RTFM! (sheesh! college -kids...!) You'll also notice that the regs
>of Part 95 prohibit modifying your rig - running linear amplifiers - the
>use of obscene language and many other things that you'll encounter on the
>wunnerful 11 meter band ... most of the people on have never read Part 95
>either..it's not required reading..but: Ignorance is no excuse! In using
>a transmitter on 11 meters..you have 'agreed' to abide -.catch that? Just
>because you didn't sign for a license, dosen't mean the rules don't apply!
Well, I guess you didn't RTFM either. As it stands right now there is no way
anyone using a CB radio is doing so legally and in accordance with PART 95.
You see there is this little piece in there about identifying with your FCC
assigned call -signs and being as the FCC doesn't assign them and enough time
has elapsed that all previous licenses have expired, how do you propose to
comply??
That's the problem with having bad laws. If it is knowingly impossible to
abide by the rules laid down in that section of Part 95, how can anyone expect
any of the rules to be taken seriously.
A highway warning system would probably be a good idea (I can't say for sure,
I stopped carrying a CB in the car years ago) but I doubt that such a system
would be do -able. The next time you go to the mall, look in all the cars in
the parking lot and see how many of them still have CBs. Damn few I would
imagine. Those little antenae on the back window don't cover channel 19!!
bill KB3Yv
Path: XXXXX!mbark �.(kf 'b I -! 6 ASO
From: mbark@XXXXX.COM (MiBarkley) i
j Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.ham-radio,misc.emerg-sero_zes,ca.driving,ba.transportati
on
Subject: Re: CB "Traffic Advisory Channel" petition
Message -ID: <7717@XXXXX.XXXXX.COH>
Date: 29 Jun 90 00:36:40 GMT
References: <7617@XXXXX.XXXXX.CO[> <9652@pt.cs.cmu.edu> <18110@ttidca.TTI.00M> <6215@helio
s.TAMU.EDU>
Followup-To: poster
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:3418 ba.transportation:864
In article <6215@heliO3.TAMU.EDU>, billg@cs.tamu.edu (William Gunshannon) writes:
> A highway warning system would probably be a good idea (I can't say for sure,
> I stopped carrying a CB in the car years ago) but I doubt that such a system
> would be do -able. The next time you go to the mall, look in all the cars in
> the parking lot and see how many of them still have CBs. Damn few I would
> imagine. Those little antenae on the back window don't cover channel 19!!
> bill KB3YV
I can absolutely positively guarantee you that every high -mileage driver in
San Joaquin County, California, who drives in the pea -soup tule fog in the
winter in the Central Valley will run right out and buy a CB rig the moment
such a channel is designated.
Well, maybe 993.
983?
At least I will, and everybody I talk to.
--Mike
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a!n3tar1w8grt!jim.grub3
From: jim.grub3@w8grt.fidonet.org (Jim Grubs)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Re: CB Channel 9 is for emergency traffic!
Message-ID:<286.268BBA4B@w8grt.fidonet.org>
Date: 29 Jun 90 20:19:12 GMT
Organization: QRV de W8GRT, Sylvania, OK
Line : 35
In MAssage-ID: <6215@helio3.TAMU.EDU> Bill Gunshannon sez:
> Well, I guess you didn't RTFM either. As it stands right now there is
> no way
> anyone using a CS radio is doing so legally and in accordance with PART
> 95.
> ;
>'You see there is this tittle piece in there about identifying with your
> FCC
> assigned call -signs and being as the FCC doesn't assign them and enough
> time
> has elapsed that all previous licenses have expired, how do you propose
> to
> comply??
It was my understanding that the FCC sidestepped that issue by issuing a
"group license" to all citizens and residents of the USA. If they cared at
all about callsigns, they might have :specified "tactical c:allsigns selected
by users" or some such gimmick.
L Sl
This is a different age, B:_'. In "our day" people felt the ,.o—,d for the
structuring and order provi.._d by licensing and testing - rt 3 and reqs and
proper procedures and all that good stuff. Today's young people especially
feel comfortable in a world of semi -organized chaos.
In other words, we were born in a "Why?" world. Today's society is a "Why
not?" world. I'm not saying that's better. It's just the way it is.
{ { Jim Grubs, W8GRT - aka FidoNet node 1:234/1
( (o)(o) UUCP:{ncar!a3uvax!stjhmc!,iuvax!ndmath!n--tar)!w8grt!jim.grubs
{ _) INTERNET: jim.grubs@w8grt.fidonet.org
i I
I / "I wanna go to the ham radi National Park
/ of the Mind and ride t..e NOS ! "
r
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BEFORE THE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20554
In re: )
Petition of Michael J. Barkley ) No:
for Rulemaking )
)
)
Petition of Michael J. Barkley to amend Part 95 of the
Commission's rules and regulations concerning designation
of one existing Citizens' Band Radio channel as a "traffic
advisory" only channel:
PETITION FOR RULE MAKING FILED
1. Notice is hereby given of proposed rule making to amend
Section 95.407 of the Commission's rules and regulations
concerning designation of one existing Citizens' Band Radio
channel as a "traffic advisory" only channel.
2. Authority for the adoption of the proposed changes is
contained in Sections 4(i) and (j) and 303(x) of the
Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 USC Sections 4(i),
4(j), 303(r).
3. Pursuant to applicable procedures set out in Section
i
;1.415 of the Commission's rules and regulations, interested
parties may file comments on or before , 19__,
i
Exhibit E, p. 1
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and reply comments on or before 19 All
relevant and timely comments and reply comments will be consider
by the Commission before the final action is taken in this
proceeding. In reaching its decision, the Commission may also
take into account other relevant information before it.
4. In accordance with the provisions of Section 1.419 of
the Rules, an original and. copies of all written comments,
files, pleadings, briefs, and other documents shall be furnished
the Commission. These documents will be available for public
inspection during regular business hours is the Commission's
Public Reference Room at its headquarters, ,
Washington, D.C.
IDated , 19
Federal Communications Commission,)
EXHIBIT E, p. 2