HomeMy WebLinkAboutAgenda Report - January 7, 1981 (47)REPAIRS TO FIRE Following introduction of the matter by City Manager
ENGINE 20x4 Glaves, Council, on motion of Councilman Pinkerton,
APPROVED Katnich second, directed that the necessary repairs
to Fire Engine 20x4 be made by the most competent
engine repair firm at a cost of approximately
$35,000.00
On motion of Councilman Pinkerton, Murphy second,
Council approved a Special Allocation in the
amount of $35,000.00 to cover these repairs.
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- CITY OF LODI
HEAOOUARS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET, LODI, CALIFORNIA 56240
January 7, 1981
RTE
PIR[ DEPAWMUNT
TO: Henry A. (claves, Jr., City Manager
FROM: Donald MacLeod, Assistant Fire Chief
SUBJECT: Repowering Engine 200
Del Schwieger of F.B. Hart Company has quoted me, by telephone% a price. of .
i3491WOO for "powering Engine 200. There -will be an additional charges of
about $600.00 if they bare to regear the Hale Pump Unit. Mr. Sahwieger-is ex-.
pecting a call from Hale Pump Company today for their final recommendation&*
The repowering job for Engine 200 shall includis ai minisus the foilmo.
ing items properly installed:
1. Detroit Diesel 6V-92 engines with all accessories. t'
2. Allison Ht -740 automatic transmission, 4 speed.
3. Donaldson, or equal, dry type air cleaner properly sized for the
engine.
4. Morse throttles transmission shift, and transmission modulator
controls.
5. Transmission lock-up solenoid valves. kr Sit.
6. Transmission cooler integral with engine.
7. Radiator properly sized for engine.:
8. Vickers power steering pump.Ago
9. lOs Amp. alternator.
h -i&
10. Donaldson muffler, exhaust pipe and tail pipe properly aimed. for�,.
engine.
11. Motor mounts and mounting brackets.
12. Speedometer drive and cable*y
13. Transmission oil filter.
14. Transmission temperature gauges and sender. }
15. Engine cover reworked as necessary and sound insulation pro*vided
r>
16. Now drive shaft and universal joints.
17. All miscellaneous belts, hoses, fittings% brackets% etc* to
prop,iicly
complete the installation in a businesslike professional ma ner`'
18. Air compressor of proper size to operate brakes and horns completi
with moisture filter. F�
19. We pump shift indicator light kit #546-0490-00.
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CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET, LODI, CALIFORNIA 96M
January 2, 1981
PINK OKPAltTMKW
TO: Henry A. Glaayss, Jr., City Manager
FROM: Donald Macleod, Assistant Fire Chief
SUBJECT: Repair of Engine 20X-4
During the weekly road teat on Sunday, December 21, 19809 Engine 20X4
was found to -have a bad vibration at 1100 R.P.M.. Specialty Mobile Main-
tenance has checked out Ehgine 20X4, and has found this vibration to be
caused by a broken crank shaft.
Engine 20X4 was purchased in 1969 and powered with a Rall -Scott -1091
cubic inch has engine with a manual transmission. The Hall -Scott Engine -ie
aw,d obsolete.. Internal parts are very hard to get. Some parts are not aYail=
�a
able at all and have: to be manufactured. The transmission is also obsolettss
a unit, with the availability of parts becoming an increasing problem.
Specialty Mobile Maintenance checked out the availability of parts for
possible repair of `EAgiae 20X4. Hq engine is the only knower supplier of "
parts for this engine in Northern California. Mr. Davidson of Hay Z'giae Cod, l yL
is unable to supply the part necessary to repair the •ngine. If thepart,.
were available, he estimated the cost of an out-of-fraft overhaul would 1W . -I"
close to ;159000.00 y
Connell Motor Truck Co., Inc. of Stockton was also contacted about
possible repair of bine 20X4. Larry Alborg, Service Manager of d6inells, ;r
has checked his sources and is also unable to obtain the parte needed to ?�
repair Engine 20X4. F
Mepowering Engine 20X4 with a diesel engine and automatic tranniiasion
appears to be the beat solution for our present problema. I would like to.
stress that it is very important this work be done by a company that is
thoroughly familiar with operations of emergency equipment. F.H.-Hart Co.
of Sacramento has such experience with repowering fire apparatc►a. -Inqui2�1
ea
CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET, LODI, CALIFORNIA 95240
January 2, 1981
FIR! 'DtpAl w aw Page 2
made of other fire departmenta who have repowered through F.B. Hart Co. have
produced only favorable consents (Unta Rosa has had threw vehicles repowered
through F.B. Sart Co.)*
On January 319 19809, F.P. -Hart Co. quoted former Chief, Donald Cockayne,.
a price of 128,167.00 to.repower Engine 20X4 with a Detroit Diesel 8V-71 aid
Allison Automatic BT -740 FS* Due to smog regulations, it is now illegal in`
California to use a Detroit 8V-po;rering.
�71 diesel for re Jel Schwieger of
F.B. Hart Co. has quoted me a rough estimate of $33,000.00 for repowering
Engine 20X=1 with the following equipment: _
Engine - Detroit Diesel 6V-92
This engine cost about $2,000.00 more than a 8V-71. The'6V-92 .< a
is also larger auric has a slower top R.F.N.. This -involves .
increasing size- of the engine compartment on Engine 20X4,
changing the pump -drive gear ratio of our Hale Fire PUMP.
Allison:. Transmission 117-740, 4 Speed.
Del Schwieger of F.B. Hart Co. is doing a feasibility study to ineetre
correct operation of all component units. Final conclusions and amore
accurate cost figure should be ready by.jonuary 6. 1981.. F.B. Hart lawyerst `^
are also ch on the possibilityof a waiver on us the 8V-71 a,
�� �6
R & L Diesel Co. of Stockton has quoted a rice of $20, .00
q P 5�► pino
Y
and labor for repowering with a 6V-92 Detroit Diesel and Allison Traawieaon;N �:' 4,
Joe Sea, owner of x & L Diesel Co., stated that they haus had ao precious
Sema,
experience of repowering fire enginea, but could do the.job.
By repowering Engine 2OX49 we would have the *quivalent.ot a new peeper
that is now selling for about $130,000.00, which should last for over, 20 yearn•,
.I reeommend,upon the successful completion of the feasibility study, F;B.
Hart Co. be allowed to repower Engine 20X4.
Donald MacLeod, Assistant Fire Chief "`
CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION J 210 W. ELM STREET. LODI, CALIFORNIA 95240
January 2, 1981
FIRE" DEPARTMENT
T0: Henry A. (}laves, Jr., City Manager
FROM: Donald MacLeod, Assistant Fire Chief
SUBJECT: Repair of Engine 20X4
During the weekly road test on Sunday, December 21, 1980, Engine 20X4
was found to have a bad vibration at 1100 R.P.H.. Specialty Mobile Main-
tenance has checked out Engine 20X4, and has found this vibration to be
caused by a broken crank shaft.
Engine 20X4 was purchased in 1969 and powered with a Hall -Scott 1091
cubic inch has engine with a manual transmission. The Hall -Scott Engine is
now obsolete. Internal parts are very hard to get. Some parts are not avail-
able at all and have to be manufactured. The transmission is also obsolete as
a unit, with the availability of parts becoming an increasing problem.
Specialty Mobile Maintenance checked out the availability of parts for
possible repair of Engine 20X4. Bay Engine is the only known supplier of
parts for this engine in Northern California. Mr. Davidson of Bay Engine Co.
is unable to supply the part necessary to repair the chorine. If the parts
were available, he estimated the cost o: an out-of-fraw& overhaul would be
close to $15,000.00
Connell Motor Truck Co., Inc. of Stockton was also contacted about the
possible repair of Engine 20X4. Larry Alberg, Service Manager of Connells
has checked his sources and is also unable to obtain the parts needed to
repair Engine 2OXh,
Repowering Engine 20X4 with a diesel engine and automatic transmission
appears to be the best solution for our present problems. I would like to
stress that it is very important this work be done by a company that is
thoroughly familiar with operations of emergency equipment. F.B. hart Co.
of Sacramento has such experience with repowering fire apparatus. Inquiries
- .. .__.__-«nr_.,...,zcwax'.en.'.*a�oa�>..scw'nCrsac's�'-a►:..,•. Cott.,
FF�
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CITE' OF LODI
r
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET. LODI, CALIFORNIA S5240
FIRE DEPARTMENT
January 2, 1981
Page 2
made of other fire departments who have repowered through F.B. Hart Co. have
produced only favorable comments (Santa Rosa has had three vehicles repowered
through F.B. Hart Cc.).
On January 31, 19809 F.B. Hart Co. quoted former Chief, Donald Cockayne,
a price of $28,167.00 to repower Engine 2OX4 with a Detroit Diesel 8V-71 and
Allison Automatic HT -740 FS. Due to smog regulations, it is now illegal in
California to use a Detroit 8V-71 diesel for repowering. Del Schwieger of
F.B. Hart Co. has quoted me a rough estimate of $33,000.00 for repowering
Ergine 20X4 with the following equipment:
Engine - Detroit Diesel 6V-92
This engine cost about $2,000.00 more than a 8V-71. The 6V-92
is also larger and has a slower top R.P.M.. This involves
increasing size of the engine compartment on Engine 20X4, plus
changing the pump drive gear ratio of our Hale Fire PW7*
Allison Transmission HT -740, 4 Speed.
Del Schwieger of F.B. Hart Co., is doing a feasibility study to insure
correct operation of all component units. Final conclusions and a more
accurate cost figure should be ready by January 6, 1981. F.B. Hart lawyers
are also checking on the possibility of a waiver on using the $V-71 engine.
R & L Diesel Co. of Stockton has quoted a price of $20,584.00 plus tax
and labor for repowering with a 6V-92 Detroit Diesel and Allison Transmission,
Joe Serta,, osier of R & L Diesel Co., stated that they have had no previous
experience of repowering fire engines, but could do the job.
By repowering Engine 20X4, we would have the equivalent of a new pumper
that is now selling for about $130,000.00, which should last for over 20 years.
I recommend,upon the successful completion of the feasibility study, F.B.
Hart Co. be allowed to repower Engine 2OX4.
Donald MacLeod, Assistant Fire Chief
CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET. LODI, CALIFORNIA 95240
FIRE DEPARTMENT
January 31, 1980
To: Mr. Henry A. Glaves, City Manager
From: Don Cockayne; Fire Chief
Subject: Repoiaering Eng.20 X4 -
This is an update on my requests of July 1978 and
.December 1978 to repower Eng. 20X4 with a diesel engine
and automatic transmission (c: -pies enclosed). As you
will recall, Eng. 20X4 is presently powered with a 1091
cubic inch Hall -Scott gasoline engine with a standard
transmission. The two newer engines (20X5 and 20X6) are
_powered with Detroit Diesel SV -71N engines with automatic
transmissions.
For a comparison, here is what was spent for repairs to
the three engines since 1-1-79:
Eng. 20X4 53,84.9.00
Eng. 20X5 405.00 r
Eng. 20X6 216.00
These costs do not include tires, lubrication or general
maintenance. Among the major repairs that have been made
on Eng. 20X4, are:
Replace differential 51,678.00
Replace water pump 598.00
Overhaul alternator 241.00
Replace air tank 161.00
Replace foot brake and springl78.00
Replace fuel pump 105.00
Overhaul carburators 327.00
Repair dove line 72.00
Replace 3rd member gasket 88.00
o v
in addition to these repairs, the clutch was replaced in
December 1978 at a cost of $320.00.
Parts for this engine are'becoming.increasingly more
difficult to obtain. We had to go to a wrecking yard
to find a used carburetor for parts.
I spoke with Mr. Del Schwieger, Parts and Service Manager
for F.S. Hart Company, Sacramento, California, and he
quoted me the following:
Detroit Diesel 8V-71 with Allison Automatic
HT740FS transmission -- $28,167.00
page 1
FIRE DEPARTMENT
They Just repowered an engine for Manteca Fire Department
at this price.
Another important factor to consider, is that: this engine
'was out of service for repairs for over 275 hours, last
year* As for our reserve pumpers, one is 28 years old
and the other Is 24 years old, and therefore not too
reliable.
in view of the past experience of troubles we have had
with Eng. 20X41 I would urgently request that this pumper
be repowered as soon as possible. We have had very good
performance with the other two pumpers that are equipped
with the Detroit Diesel 8V-71 engines and the Allison
Automatic HT740FS transmission and therefore I would
recommend that Eng. 20X4 be repowered with this same
combination.
It is very important that this work be done by a company
which is thoroughly familiar with operations of emergency
equipment and has had much experience with repowering of
such equipment. Therefore I would recommend that F.B.
Hart Company of Sacramento do this work In the very near
future.
4
N
CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET, LODI, CALIFORNIA 95240
FIRM DEPARTMENT
December 18, 1978
To: Henry A. Glaves, City Manager
From: Don Cockayne, Fire Chief
Subject: Repairing of Eng 920X4
I have recently talked to the Fire Chiefs or the Mechanics
of the fire departments that had used Hell -Scott engines
in their fire apparatus. Here are'the results of these
talks:
Bakersfield - Reoowered 4 or S with Detroit Diesel and
Allison Auto.Transmissions
San Luis Obispo - Renowered with Detroit Diesel and
Allison transmissions
Modesto : Problems with parts - Repo.•rered 2 with
Cummings Diesels
Redwood City - Changed over all to Detroit Diesel 4
iloodside - Changed to Detroit Diesel
San Rafael - Repowering with Detroit Diesel and Allison
Automatic Transmissions - problem with warts
Contra Costa Consolidated Fire District - Had -a 3 Hall-
Scotts-repowered with Cumminqs Diesel and
Automatic Transmission
Most of the people I tallied with said that the increased
upkeep, unavailability of parts, and economy of operation
were their main reasons for changing over to diesel engines.
I also spoke to Les Calkins about chnaging the gear ratio in
the differential and Inas told that all that would do is give
us more speed or less speed. it wouldn't effect the wear on
the clutch.
PRO �.
C07APANY
�
no -
December
8, 1978
TO:' Lodi Fire Department
FROM:. Del Schwieger, Parts and Service Manager
F: B. Hart Company
Detroit Diesel Allison Division
Below are some of the items to be taken into consideration when making a de-
cision whether or not to repower a piece of equipment.
1. Engine
The Hall -Scott engine is obsolete. Internal parts are very hard to
get. Some parts are not available at all and have to be manufactured.
It also becomes increasingly hard to maintain horsepower of your present
engine.
2. Transmission
The transmission is obsolete as a unit. Some parts are still available,
but for how long it is not known. Because of unreplaceable parts such as
main drive gear, main drive cap and throw -out bearing collar, there is
always the problem of clutch allignment. Clutch problems could turn out
to be your number one cost of repair and down time.
3. Chassis
d
Other than your pumps the ch,.ssis should be in excellent condition. near
axel, body and frame all get little abuse so you have a candidate for re -
power.
We suggest, in your case, a Detroit Diesel BV71 Fire Pumper 350 HP at 2300 RPM.
This is a special engine foi fire pumpers. It makes an excellent repower pack-
age and carries a five (5) year warranty, the same as a new truck.
F.13.
1441 Richards Blvd. T' 2535 Ellis Street
Sacramento, CA 95SD7 - Redding, CA 96001
Phone (916) 441-6151 U J�J Phone (916) 246-2.160
tincr 17?7
1' � „ CUMMINS, CATERrILLAR, DEINOIT DIESEL ALLISON
�.. . _. , _.._...._... . v a
Lodi Fire Department
December 8, 1978
We also.suggest that you use a HT740 Allison Automatic-. transmission fire
pumper special. This transmission is designed to be used in fire trucks. -
8y a flip of a switch you can pump in fourth gear lock-up. With an Allison
you have no clutch to worry about. It will also help your pump to'last
longer because there is no shift shock. Drive lines will last longer also.
The Allison transmission, like the engine, carries a five (S) year warranty.
Please study the attached information and if there are any questions, please
call ase.
DS/lo
�- CITY of LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET, LODI, CALIFORNIA 95240
FIRE DEPARTMENT
Dec. 20t 1978
P. B. Haurt . Co. Sacramento
Detroit Diesel 8V 711 pith accessories
Allison Automtic Transmission H1740
with cooler and linkage
$15,865.40 plus tux h labor
Repo-vered 1965 Van Pelt for Santa Rosa 322051.32 plus Tac
Approximate total cost novr 323P000.00 plus tax
R L Diesel Truc::s Stockton
Detroit Diesel 8V 71~ nits accessories
:Ulison Au'onatic Transmission 117 740 A
with cooler ? linkage 315,696.00 plus tax tc labor
5 year or 100.000 miles
Erwg. 4 hood 34 3/4 inches
BrIgs. 5 hood 33 1/2 irczes
CITY OF LODI
HEADQUARTERS STATION / 210 W. ELM STREET. LODI. CALIFORNIA 95240
FIRE DEPARTMENT
July 79 1978
To: Heart A. Glaves, Jr., City Manager
From: Don Cockayne, Fire Chief
Subject:. Repowering Engine 20X4
I recently talked with you concerning the problems we have
had with Eng 4 and suggested that this engine be repowered
with a Diesel engine and a five (5) speed Allison automatic
Transmission. Eng. 4 was purchased in 1969 at a cost of
544,500.00.
In the past year, we have spent about 51,200.00 for repairs
on this engine.
The present power plant in this engine is a Hall—Scott 1091
cubic inch gas engine with a manuel transmission_ They no
longer make Hall—Scott engines and parts are getting very
scarce. At the present time, we need a rear main seal and
a new clutch, which will cost approximately 52,00 J.00.
To install a Die.... 1 engine and automatic transmission will
cost about S25,GuG.00, but we would then have the equivalent
of a new pumper that is now selling for about $969000.00,
which should last for another 20 to 30 years.
I would strongly urge you to consider using some of the
Federal Reserve Sharing Eunds for this very important project.
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